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ATP Masters 500Gerry Weber OpenHalleRoger Federer

Zverev Takes Out Federer To Make Final in Halle

An impressive win for Alexander Zverev in Halle as he defeated eight-time champion Roger Federer to book his spot in his maiden ATP 500 final.

The young German came through 7-6(4), 5-7, 6-3 in two hours and six minutes and he's the first teenager to defeat Federer in nearly 10 years, after Murray defeated him at the Cincinnati Masters in 2006. Another tough loss on the grass for Fed after last weeks loss to Thiem and there's plenty questions about the Swiss man's form ahead of Wimbledon in just over a weeks time.

Quick Match Recap

Federer vs. Zverev Halle

Federer won the toss and elected to serve firing down 2 aces to hold for 1-0. Zverev quickly levelled and both players were dominant on serve trading comfortable holds. In game 8 Roger had 0-15 for the first time but Zverev held and shortly after the set resulted in a tie break.

Into the breaker and Zverev went up a a mini break after a joke dropshot from Fed. Roger did manage to get it to 3-3 at the change of ends but Zverev pulled away to take it 7-4.

Roger needed to find a way to win more return points in set 2 after winning only 4 in the first but it was Zverev who again looked the sharper of the two. Two double faults in game 3 got Roger his first deuce but the German held. The next piece of notable action came in game 7 where Zverev fashioned 2 break points which Roger saved with some solid serving. The Swiss then had 2 break points of his own which he couldn't convert as Zverev held for 5-4. At 5-5 Zverev fired down an untimely double fault to slip to 15-40 and although he saved the first break point Roger took the second with a drop shot and went onto serve out the set 7-5.

Winning the second put momentum firmly on Roger's side and after a toilet break he looked to maintain it, missing a chance to break in Zverev's opening service game. Another break point came the way of the Swiss in game 3 but Zverev held to lead 2-1. At this point I thought Fed would find a way to come through as he adjusted his return position to deeper in the court and was making more balls however at 2-3 Roger found himself in big trouble down 15-40 and then missed a routine groundstroke trying to hit an elaborate inside out backhand which landed wide. A Zverev hold to 15 then put him within 1 game of the match and despite Roger holding to apply some pressure the teenager held to love to win through.

Match Stats

R.Β Federer A.Β Zverev
Aces 7 8
Double Faults 2 4
1st Serve % 60% 65%
1st Serve Points Won 46/58 (79%) 54/68 (79%)
2nd Serve Points Won 21/39 (54%) 23/36 (64%)
Break Points Saved 2/3 (67%) 6/7 (86%)
Service Games Played 16 17
1st Return Points Won 14/68 (21%) 12/58 (21%)
2nd Return Points Won 13/36 (36%) 18/39 (46%)
Break Points Won 1/7 (14%) 1/3 (33%)
Return Games Played 17 16
Winners 32 39
Unforced Errors 29 28
Net Points Won 11/17 6/14
Total Service Points Won 67/97 (69%) 77/104 (74%)
Total Return Points Won 27/104 (26%) 30/97 (31%)
Total Points Won 94/201 (47%) 107/201 (53%)
SABR 0 0

Highlights

Thoughts on the Match

Federer Zverev Halle

Well back down to earth after yesterday's performance as Roger was outplayed for most of this one. From the word go Zverev was able to dictate from the back of the court and all Roger was able to do was play reactive tennis only managing to win 4 points on the return in the opener. Set 2 saw some improvements as he was able to take advantage from a Zverev lull but after failing to take his chances at the start of the decider Zverev got his second wind and pretty much coasted over the line after breaking for 3-2. Yesterday was up against a guy with no weapons and he took him apart, today he faced a guy with a big serve and ground game and played second fiddle.

So first the positives – 4 matches played with today's been quite a long one lasting over 2 hours so he at least has some matches in his legs now. The first serve has been pretty reliable too this week which is a good sign and we've seen patches of what he can do on the surface. It was good to see him make an adjustment on the return too in set 2 by standing just a touch further back which paid off as he broke serve for the only time in the match. But that's about it really from what I've seen, it will be interesting to read what Fed makes of it in press.

The bad bits – too slow. Any points where Fed doesn't have to do much moving he's decent but whenever 3, 4 or 5 steps are involved he's late on the ball and either makes the error or hits with no power resulting in an easy short ball. We saw it again today where he's having to lunge to get to certain shots and just looks laboured in his movement. So there are quite a few question marks about his fitness and whether he can get close to 100% so that the game becomes about forehands and backhands, not trying to manage the body mid match.

What did you guys make of the loss? Let me know in the comments.

Federer vs. Zverev Halle 2016 Rating

Serving
Returning
Net Play
Winner to Unforced Error Ratio
Break Point Conversion

Laboured

Still not quite there with his game, looked laboured when having to move 3/4 steps. Onto Wimbledon.

User Rating: 2.01 ( 7 votes)

Jonathan

Huge fan of Roger Federer - I'll pretty much try and watch all his matches from Grand Slam level right down to ATP 250. When I'm not watching or tweeting about tennis I play regularly myself and use this blog to share my thoughts on Fed and tennis in general.

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106 thoughts on “Zverev Takes Out Federer To Make Final in Halle”

  1. Disappointed result as he has bit of chance in beginning of third, but overall he was behind mostly so no surprises in result…

    Without full fitness I think we have to turn down expectations for Wimbledon now… looks like crazy 16 season…..

    All the Best for him..cheers..

  2. yeah fed is too slow but he still find a way to get a set he still need time to do more fitness
    1 week rest before wimbledon let see what fed can do if his fitness is not 90% or more his chance to beat top player in b05 is too low he can be out in the 1st week

      1. Like … oh … Stakhovsky, you mean? πŸ™‚

        He could get Zverev in round 1. Or …

        I have no great hopes for Wimbledon, but at least if he can get some reasonably decent ranking points …

  3. not looking too good for wimby this… Couldn’t catch the match, but not very convinced by his overall form, not the usual perfect Roger :/

      1. Yes, he must be delighted. Did he cry? I’d have been in tears, given what he’s been through, I think.

      2. He did cry Alison; you could see what it meant to him. He’s been plagued with some nasty injuries in the last couple of years, so I’m very happy for him. I’d forgotten what a clever player he was; he’s not got many weapons really, but the drop shot/lob combo won him an awful lot of points. No doubt Zverev was tired after yesterday’s heroics, 1st serve % down, and lost a lot of points on 2nd serve in 1st set.

        Remain impressed with Zverev though. He fought right to the end. But he’s got plenty of time to hold up some trophies and there’s no doubt in my mind that he has the talent to do so.

    1. Didn’t we see it in the 1st set against Goffin?

      Can it really be gone if we just saw it yesterday?

      This is a guy who made the semifinals of the AO a couple of months ago, right?

      1. We may see glimpses of the good Fed but it’s going to be hard to sustain if he has physical problems. In Australia he was playing great but that was before the surgery.

      1. J. do you think he understands this?

        Like – in your estimation is it pretty likely his team understands what’s wrong?

  4. Fed’s return game is just awful, sigh. #18 at Wimbledon this year will be very very difficult. Hope for the best…

  5. That is the saddest part, Mayer in the final. This is a season worse than 2013 plus he’s 3 years older.

    I often wonder what he does for his back. What kind of treatment or should he and his team explore other options?

    Worried about Wimbledon and the rest of the season. What is down the road?

  6. So firstly, I don’t want to take anything away from Zverev. He played a good match, and was very much the deserved winner. Very impressive.

    However, onto Federer… oh dear. I was hopeful after yesterday. I thought that we was seeing some improvement over the matches, and that he did well to get over the line. But today was a real shocker from him. “Reactive” I think sums it up quite well, for all of the first set, most of the second and the last half of the third, he was just reacting to what Zverev was doing rather than taking control of the points. For a lot of the time, he didn’t look like he a clue as to what to do and how to get a grip on the match. When his chances did game, he was still sloppy in taking them and very nearly gave it back to Zverev to win it in straights. And how he didn’t break at the start of the third I’ll never know, it was lined up perfectly for him, Zverev was all over the place.

    I think my biggest concern is that there is no aspect of his game that looks good right now. His serve is holding up well enough but he’s not getting enough cheap points from it when he needs them – down break points today he managed to pull off some but in the third it just didn’t look at all likely he would pull himself out of the hole with his serve. I don’t think it’s an issue per se, but clearly it’s not full flowing either. His movement seems to be a bit hit and miss – sometimes he moves well and other times I saw him quit on points he’d usually be able to chase after and arriving late on the wings all too often. His backhand looks completely flat most of the time and even the forehand looks shaky at times. Usually, when he is going through a bit of a poor patch, he still has something he can rely on to drag himself through matches but I’m not getting that feeling with him at this time.

    I wouldn’t say all of this surprises me, or is unexpected. After his year, with all the delays and injuries he’s had, this kind of play is probably to be expected. But Wimbledon, probably the heart of his season, starts in just over a week today and honestly, he doesn’t look near ready. He looks at least another 2 weeks away from being able to mount any kind of title challenge there and I just don’t think he will do so. I think if we saw an improvement between here and the Goffin match we could say with a bit of work he could get back to form bit there was none of that from what I could see here. Maybe some of it was Zverev, but you’d really expect Fed to take control over a 19 year old on grass, in Halle.

    I don’t expect much from Wimbledon. From what we’ve seen here, even quarters looks optimistic, but we’ll see what happens as and when it starts. I just hope a poor showing at Wimby doesn’t kill off any confidence he does have for the rest of the season or we really may be seeing a season even worse than 2013.

    1. I doubt Fed is expecting to win Wimbledon so if he gets out in the first week it shouldn’t impact the rest of the season and plus Olympics are coming so there’s much to look forward to.

    2. Yeah pretty much agree but you can’t expect huge stuff from Fed with the year he has had. Still finding his feet after a long time out. He had already lost half a step from his prime naturally with age, interesting to see if he has lost any more with injury and knee surgery – not played enough or got fit enough to tell yet.

      What will Ljubicic add now normal work resumes? Maybe Fed can use some different patterns of play to find some success. Has all the tools at his disposal…

  7. Quarters and more is realistic for Wimbledon however there is still the US Open and Olympics to look forward to. His movement isnt there and he is dictating hardly any points. The current rankings sums up the Wimbledon Contenders order plus a possible dark horse run from Kyrgios much like thiem at the quarters. Still Roger hasnt won a title since Basel last year Lets hope he takes Wimbledon for his 18th

  8. Yet another close, frustrating loss. Mentally he seems pretty tough but he just can’t quite execute the plays he wants because he’s worrying about his body. Isn’t moving well, can’t come forward…like that, he can’t do much against a top player.

    Zverev has the killer combination of big serve/explosive power/long reach + great movement, a bit like Safin. A tough opponent for a less-than-100% Federer. I don’t think Federer could have done too much better in the first set than he did; the crux of the match was his missing his chances at the beginning of the third. He did well to adjust on the return but that doesn’t matter when you can’t execute at the decisive moment.

    At no point did he look like a winner. The fact that he lasted longer than Baghdatis was due largely to his superior serve; but you felt it was only a matter of time before he had that one poor service game which would allow his opponent the decisive break. On grass, one or two points make the difference and that was certainly the case here.

    I was really hoping for him to make the final. But two semis really isn’t that bad, given he was away from the tour for so long. He showed fighting spirit during all his matches, but if you’re physically unable to perform at a reasonable level, it doesn’t matter how much fighting spirit you have.

    Who knows how Federer will do at Wimbledon? He’s pretty tight-lipped about his physical condition so we really have no idea how much it’s affecting his play right now. A week may be enough time to heal any physical issues, but is it enough time for him to get his game in order too? So many questions, and no way to answer them until rubber meets road.

    Hope for a friendly draw, hope that any big hitters he gets early on can’t keep it up over five sets…I get the feeling we may see a five-setter in the early rounds, and if he survives that he stands a great chance of going all the way. In Grand Slams it’s still a little harder for an opponent to get hot and blow him away, especially at Wimbledon (and especially when the roof is on, so pray for rain).

    Someone here (I think it was Ryan) suggested he might have a better chance if he comes into Wimbledon fighting to find form rather than if he’s already playing great, since he’d not expect to blow everyone away; I agree with this assessment. I think if the physical issues go away, he’ll start playing much better tennis without too much pressure.

    To be honest, he needs a little luck to go far at Wimbledon, because it’s not entirely in his hands right now. But the prospect of Grand Slam #18 is not impossible. Go Roger!

    1. Thanks for nice positives, Steve – exactly what I think – yes, reasons to doubt his form, but enough positives to not excluding reasons of still hoping! So why not do that…

    2. Yeah, I think realistically the best we can hope for Wimbledon is that he heals up from any lingering physical and fitness issues and survives the first week with just enough difficulty to play his way into form. We’ll have to see the draw really, I don’t want an easy one but a mid-tier difficulty one should be fairly decent.

    3. Not sure the draw really matters this year. Fed’s form too unpredictable to say who will or won’t take advantage of his vulnerability.

  9. Good comment Steve, especially, ‘…two semis really isn’t that bad, given he was away from the tour for so long. He showed fighting spirit during all his matches, but if you’re physically unable to perform at a reasonable level, it doesn’t matter how much fighting spirit you have.’

    All I can say is Feds has a way to go. He’s looked better, but it’s a bit like a flickering candle and the movement (although improved) is just not there. Probably still nervous about explosive movement to net etc. possibly because he’s still being cautious with the knee, borne out by very few forays to the net throughout the tournament.

    A week off to work a little more on strength/fitness/movement etc., with the information he has presumably gained over these 2 weeks might see an improvement, but is it really long enough? That said, if he’s playing, no one can rule him out completely. At least his serve is working well and there were some lovely forehand shots, so I’m trying very hard not to be too gloomy.

    Here’s the presser from Halle anyway: http://www.gerryweber-open.de/gwo_en/Interviews/2016/18.06.20162/Interview-with-Roger-Federer

    As usual Feds puts a reasonably optimistic slant on how he’s done over the last couple of weeks:

    ‘I mean looking back on how I felt three, four weeks ago, this is pretty good obviously. Talking to me after a loss clearly is always tougher to step back and just to reassess how great everything is, you know, after losing. But I must say it’s gotten better and better. The only thing maybe missing is a better baseline game. I guess that comes through movement and through just playing enough again. I feel the serve has come back around now, the returns have gotten better also throughout the match today. And I think if the movement gets better and then the baseline game improves a little bit I’ll be better on the big points, on the return and also I’m going to be hopefully in less trouble on my own service games at time. But, you know, I’m okay and I’m pleased on how I played, how I’m feeling…’ so it would appear that he’s OK physically, which is comforting at least. πŸ™‚

      1. Ditto! The old fart always comes up with the right thing to say in these moments. That’s how the great show how great they are.

    1. Yeah was fairly interesting presser. He looked a bit downbeat in the video clip I saw though.

      We will know more after first few matches at Wimbledon how he is playing. Can’t see him losing stupidly early but you never know…

  10. 2 rounds at Wimbledon will be a treat!
    Damn. I’m so bitter and so frustrated with this crappy year. The only mildly reassuring thing is the rise of a generation of decent talented young players. It’s thugs/orcs/junkies like Kyrgios, Joker, Rosol, Nadal, Stepanek that I can’t stand. Did I already mention my bitterness?…

  11. I know this site is about Roger, and I am too very sad about this loss – he hardly had a chance.
    However: Zverev played the match of his life. Hit the lines over and over again. Served pretty consistent.
    The match could be considered a “Soderling” for that matter.
    Still… I’m pretty hung over from this result, especially because Mayer is the other finalist πŸ™

    1. Yeah. He just has to take it match by match. The draw could be good and give him some lesser-than-heavyweight opponents but if he has a big hitter in the early rounds that could be trouble.

  12. Fed should continue to play as long as he enjoys the game and to entertain us with his amazing talent. It is not practical to expect him to win anything at his age any more. Zverev is almost half his age and plays great. No shame in losing to him in 3 sets. Just wish these guys get better to start beating Djoker as well.

  13. 7 matches in 10 days after the season he’s had! Come on guys, much much more than I expected! I thought he might lose to Fritz and I thought Giffin might take him due to his superior consistency.
    He held MP’s v Thiem and today he came up against a better oppo on the day.
    He knows what he has to do, and said as much on the presser. Forecast isn’t great for Wimby so if he can stay on CC under the roof, get a kind first weeks draw… Then who knows! I personally wld take QF/SF if it means he stays healthy and is fully fit and flying around the court for USO…
    He is back to 12th in Race which seems miraculous considering how little he has played. These 7 matches will Hv given him more confidence, more answers. I remain positive! And just bloody glad to see him back on court.
    Yes, the serve is nearly back. Compared to Rome and even MC… Much more bend and bite.
    FH and BH are about confidence and once they flow, I suspect he will approach the net more..
    Allez!
    Draw on 24th June…..

    1. Yep, I’d guess that 7/10 is probably quite enough for now – wait and see how he feels. At least there should be a rest day between matches at Wimbledon – though if the weather doesn’t improve there may not always be.

  14. Really disappointing, but I’m not surprised – wonder if I will be proved right about Zverev winning the whole thing? Better to lose to the eventual winner, and all that?

    I guess we’re going to have to resign ourselves to one step forward followed by one back for Roger as he regains – well, everything, really. Fitness, confidence, mental strength, match-playing ability. I’d originally hoped he might be back challenging at Wimbledon, but when he pulled out of RG I started having doubts. Maybe the American swing will be better. At the moment, I’m more disappointed about the loss of points than anything – especially with only Flo Mayer in the final. I did wonder if Thiem getting a walkover wouldn’t be the best thing for him.

    Incidentally, I noticed that Fed’s winners count was still higher than his UE count – so that’s one strike against Jonathan’s theory.

      1. Glad Zverev didn’t win, in a way – it would probably put a lot of additional pressure on him to win an ATP 500 at this stage in his career, especially in his native country.

  15. I’m really sadden by this match, on different fronts. His poor form and obvious lack of fitness after yesterday. I thought he was well and truly back after the Goffin win. And I’m also very annoyed that naturally all Fed’s opponents these days play inspired and on fire against him. Always no exception whatsoever. Just like any master who’s on irreversible decline, everyone wants a piece of him. They know they can. I find this very hard to accept. With Fed’s ‘luck’ and over the year with the draw, I predict he plays Zverer and Thiem again in Wimby, will lose in a close one which will be remembered for the rest of the time as the torch passing match. Sign and cry πŸ™

    1. I don’t think it’s about the opponents playing inspired tennis just against him. You’ll often see a match in which the same inspired opponent will get clinically dismantled by Djokovic or Murray (against whom they should, in theory be playing inspired tennis as well). It’s just that the opponent is being given opportunities to play that way against him. Unfortunate, but I think true.

      1. I definitely agree with this. You’re only as good as you’re allowed to be, especially when ou play Fed, whose game is entirely overwhelming.

  16. He had chances in early of 3rd set against Zverev, too bad not able to convert. Good thing serve is working, now he has to make his groundies work. Movement/fitness to be at least 90% to go deep at Wimbledon. I reckon with a good draw he might be able to reach quarters. With 10 days to Wimbledon, window is closing fast. Who knows really, now just pray for a good draw.

  17. Anyone been over to the ultimatetennis blog recently? That dude must be having an absolute field day for the last 365 days. Wow. 2016 has not been a fun tennis year!!

    1. Lol, that blog couldn’t be any more irrelevant these days. Don’t even think it’s worth discussing about it here. After all, he has particularly shown envy towards this blog many times, even calling this a “celebrity worship blog” . Not sure if Jon is aware of this.

      1. I love this site, not often we can get together to talk about tennis, Roger and many other things. Keep up the awesome work here Jon πŸ™‚

      2. For some strange reason, Jonathan keeps that blog advertised on his site. The guy is a bully…nothing more.

      3. What’s wrong worshiping tennis God πŸ˜†

        Ditto Dippy. Just keep going, Roger and you, Jonathan!

  18. I think this loss will generate some good results at Wimbeldon. I didn’t expect Federer to win that much nor do I expect him to be at his best right out of the hole. We have been spoiled as fans and it’s easy to be a couch critic and pick out the negatives but I believe he is doing all he can while being cautious. If Federer doesn’t win anything this year, that will be fine.

  19. Another final set loss… That FH… It’s gone it’s gone.. Don’t know what to say…FED FH which I love the most and was a fan of it since my grad days back in 05-06. not even the FH we have seen in 15 Wimby and US HC times.. It’s even worse.. He couldn’t dictate play with that FH anymore.. Why is he being conservative and not painting the lines, not using angles with his FH.. Let’s wish he comes back strong in Wimbledon…
    I also want to know spin or rpm stats for FED FH.. can someone help..

  20. Not much to add huh. Just sucks that this time last year we were gunning for Fed to get the Wimbledon title and now just hoping with a bit of luck he doesn’t get booted in the first rounds (well that’s me at least). Even with all the rust issues per say, Fed’s inability to play good on crucial points has been a continuing story for the past few years now so to see him not take his chances in the beginning of that third is frustrating to say the least. Hit the nail on the head J about Fed lunging to the ball instead of the required footwork so movement/fitness still a huge issue.

    What else to say though? It’s weird and hard watching Fed in this form, especially a week out from SW19. Despite this, I’d take Fed below his best than no Fed at all because there’s still a touch of genius to witness no matter what.

  21. Many good comments. I was very disappointed by the match . Zveerc played lights out in the 1st set, untouchable tennis . I thought Federer started to get into things by the middle of the 2nd. What made me sick was the inability to get the break desperate 2-3? chances early in the 3rd, just like Thiem. I mean he got the return in , he lost those points rather than Zverev winning them.

    It actually reminds me a lot of 2013 as he is clearly laboured moving to his backhand side, not moving too well forward either. When you see him lunging all the time this is bad. It is not age I don’t think, because just youtube Austrlian 2015 highlights vs Berdcch . Is it the knee? Or mostly the back? Or a mental worry about injury?

    How many points can be lost from erros off the backhand? It seemed so many NEUTRAL rallies are lost due to a tame backhand into the net. One feature of the new raquet as been a more reliable backhand, but now it seems he has lost it. Obviously the backhand will be the weak side but he has to be able to hang in neutral rallies at least.

    Unfortunately because of this lack of movement I can’t see any way realistic chance for him to get past the quarters. It will be a whole ‘passing of the torch’ saga by the pundits eager for drama, as someone said above.

    As you get older I think the rust is harder to shake off as well, so all the lunging might be related to teh fact he is not reading his oponents well. But he does look slow out there.

    I am hanging on to Murray to stop Djokovic now, which given the French, is probably fruitless…maybe with Lendl back something might happen.

    1. Fed on break points πŸ˜†

      Tbh he needs to move away from that strategy of hating to waste break point chances which basically means he plays the points like he is wasting for his opponent to miss. He set’s up break points by making things happen, but then plays the break point itself with no conviction. Daft really.

      1. UGGGHH!!!!! This is SO TRUE. SO TRUE. And so depressing.

        Isn’t that what happened at USO 15?

        And if it is so obvious to us – why doesn’t he see se it and change it?

        Isn’t anyone on his team asking him to face the facts?

  22. Reminds me of the 2013 Fed when he was struggling with back issues and was losing to lower ranked players left and right.

      1. His movement (not speed) doesn’t look as stiff as in 2013 though. (?)

        It seem like – to me anyway. -there have been a lot of ballet-Fed moments in the last fortnight. Even if sporadic.

        So it seems – maybe – like the injury is in a different state of progress?

  23. WImbledon is not Halle or Queens. Come what may, Federer will effortlessly or labouriously reach the semis or finals of wimbledon this year. And if he does, then he needs to immediately bow out of the game as a winner like the gracious sampras did in 2002 after a two-year horrible slump (falling as low as number 10) or as a runner-up, like the dignified exit of steffi graf at wimbledon 99 without a second thought or the hope of one more, one more, just one more. He will be revered and remembered far longer than if the next few years are a desperate dash against ageing and the steely resolve of the late-to-realize-his-potential novak djokovic. Come on, Roger. Give grass your best shot this year. You can do a hat-trick of finals for sure.

    1. I disagreed strongly. Before we even debate the potential pitfalls of whether Roger is good enough to win again, I’d like to hear an explanation as to why you feel as though Roger’s should make his career decisions based on how people see him and his legacy?

  24. A very decent tournament by Roger, though i am little dissapointed he could have won thw whole thing, i am optimistic abput fed playing himself into form in week 2 , really dont see him bowing out in week 1 and then we ll sew what happens from there. Playing 7 grass cpurt matches should groove him well. His footwork will be fine like he himself quoted that you cant win wimbledon till 3 weeks.
    J. any updates on the wimby outfit? Nike is playing secret??

    1. Leave is the sensible choice for the vast majority. But we’ll remain. I say leave as the European project is failing miserably. Based on the negatives put forward if we were to leave, I’d stand to lose out a fair bit. But I know full well barely any of it of it would happen and even if I did lose out to a degree; benefits recouped elsewhere and for the nation as whole would outweigh any personal losses. I stand to lose out but I’m still saying leave, tells you all you need to know about the EU really.

      The types of people who are telling you remain aren’t exactly the ones with your interests at heart either. I could list 100’s but the first one that came to mind is Mark Carney. The Governor of the Bank of England. Something which has huge influence over peoples decisions and has no political remit so should never be involved. He has backed remain. Except the guy is a fraud. His track record is terrible. He’s proven to be a liar time and time again when making any sort of predictions on the economy. So generally – do the opposite of what he says, and you’d be better off.

      But ultimately I think remain will win as I would say 80% of people have an overly simplistic view of how things and the world works. And neither side has done a great job at campaigning to paint facts or let people make an informed decision.

      The whole thing has turned into a farce tbh, they wheeled out Beckham yesterday to have his say, and the sad this thing is he’ll have swayed many people’s decision in favour of remain. Sure a good % can see straight through it but the majority can’t. I guess it’s just a sign of the times, exploit the knowledge gap, use fear tactics, and bring out the celebs looking for a fast track to knighthood.

      Even if leave were to pose a threat in the votes, I think you could put forward a strong argument that it’d be rigged in favour of remain and the ballot box wouldn’t even come into it.

      1. Leave is a threat to the status quo, so I think you’re right, just like the Scottish independence vote, it all points to remain, rigged or otherwise.

      2. Has the Jo Cox thing made the news in the USA? It’s been non stop over here, really quite sad how it’s been leveraged over here.

      3. Yeah good point about threat to the status quo. The bookies odds are firmly with remain so I can’t see it being any other way. I would guess 55% to 45%.

        The whole thing has turned into a farce, no facts just mud slinging. Check out some of David Cameron’s tweets, it’s hilarious.

        I stand by my point that most people are pretty unsavvy / borderline simple when it comes to stuff like this.

        There was a woman on the news this morning who worked on a checkout at a supermarket – she was voting Remain because her son studies economics and he is convinced remain is the right choice πŸ˜†

        I would love to have seen first hand how University’s have being pushing the agenda for this.

      4. I think the primary concern of university affiliated people is in the funding for research, and moreover the unity of scientific groups. Most academia related courses (DPhil) for sciences tend to include a huge exposure to various experiments, and this usually perpetuates itself through periods of access to other European groups.

        I’m not saying leaving would change that access, nor the funding for science, but if you’re a student looking to enter the world of research, having the EU instead of entirely state-based work is a useful one.

      5. Also completely agree re status quo with Sid. It’s totally true that fear is the primary motivator (I guess you could call it safety πŸ˜› ).

        I think it will be quite close, though, primarily because of the demographic split of voters and the tendency of younger ages to be unappreciative of a right to vote.

        Also, am interested to what extent the classic “social justice” bullshit will work here. The idea is of course that people think Europe promotes equality of all and erases borders, and the idealistic idiots of the modern day are certain that’s plausible and willing to look at anyone who votes remain as “xenophobic and racist”.

      6. Well I’ve been proved wrong on this one. Very surprised that Leave won the day. I guess I underestimated people. Not sure what tipped the balance in favour of leave, maybe their refusal to address the key issues.

        Have to say thought I think it will proved to be the right decision completely going forward. I can’t think of one benefit from the EU that in any shape or form relied on political union. You can make any sort of deal as a sovereign state whether it’s trade, visa’s etc. etc. And probably spells the end for the European project. I’m sure more countries will now leave.

      7. @Sue – I know all about Carney, he caused the housing bubble for you lot. He’s just a Cameron hire. Every predictions he has made has been proved wrong. I like listening to him talking about interest rates rising, won’t happen in the next 10 years. Maybe more.

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