Australian OpenGrand SlamsRoger Federer

Incomparable Federer Wins 6th Australian Open Title

Grand Slam Number 20 for the GOAT as he added yet another trophy to the cabinet with a hard-fought 6-2, 6-7(5), 6-3, 3-6, 6-1 victory over Marin Cilic in 3 hours and 3 minutes.

Twelve months on from defeating Nadal in that thrilling five-setter the Swiss continues to write more records and improve on what is already an unparalleled legacy. He's now the joint all-time leader for Norman Brookes Challenge Cup's with 6 (tied Djokovic & Emerson) and at the ripe old age of 36, he's been able to defend a Grand Slam title for the first time since the US Open in 2008. peRFect.

Quick Match Recap

Fed AO 2018 Winner

Cilic won the toss and elected to serve. The Croat produced a nervy start missing an overhead he should have let bounce on break point as Roger broke for 1-0. That was consolidated to love and a double break then put Roger up 3-0.

With the set all but over Cilic needed to find his feet and he managed to get on the board in game five and hold again for 2-5 before Roger sealed the set to 15.

Into set two and Cilic was able to fashion his first break point of the match, only to see it saved with a big inside in forehand from the Swiss. Roger then had break points of his own in games three, five and nine but Cilic held firm and the set resulted in a tie-break.

Into the tie-break and Roger struck first hitting a nice backhand to move up a mini-break only for Cilic to come up with a big return and the former US Open champion stole momentum to take the breaker 7-5.

Set three started in cagey fashion with neither playing really taking initiative from the baseline. But at 2-3 Roger took advantage to break when Cilic only made one first serve in the game. He consolidated for 5-2 and then served out the set 6-3 to put himself back in front.

With a four-set Federer win looking likely he got off to a dream start breaking and holding to love for 2-0. However, in game six the Swiss played a disaster service game as his first serve crumbled (he was serving at just 38% for the set at this point) and Cilic hit back to level at 3-3. Cilic then held for 4-3 and although Roger saved two break points in game eight he couldn't hold off a third as Cilic broke and served out the set 6-3.

Another five-set Australian Open final for the GOAT ensued and he had to come up with some clutch play in the opening game, saving two break points before hitting a ridiculous crosscourt backhand to hold. Buoyed by the hold Federer was able to up his intensity, finally connecting with an aggressive backhand on the return to break for 2-0. A hold to 30 put him up 3-1 and in game five Roger held in just 66 seconds to lead 4-1 and put the pressure back on Cilic. That pressure told as the Croat dropped serve to 15 and Roger then served out his 20th Slam title to love, again winning a Hawkeye challenge on match point to take it 6-1. Allez!

Match Stats

M.CILIC R.FEDERER
Aces 16 24
Double faults 5 4
First serve % in 62% 60%
Win % in 1st serve 69% (61/88) 80% (67/84)
Win % in 2nd serve 51% (27/53) 58% (32/55)
Break points won % 22% (2/9) 46% (6/13)
Winners 45 41
Unforced Errors 64 40
Total points won 128 152
Fastest serve 214kmh 207kmh
SABR 0 0

Highlights

Trophy Ceremony

An emotional one from Fed! The press naturally all talk of retirement but like I said on Twitter, which he later he confirmed, it all spilt out because he's not really had or needed to let much emotion out during the two weeks of play – easy-ish route to the final and then a bit of a up and down final without too much tension.

Thoughts on the Match

Federer 20th Slam Title

20GER! 20th slam title in the bag for Fed and he's now won three slams after the age of 35 which is just unheard of. He was one of the pre-tournament favourites going in, certainly the favourite once he'd made the final and he was able to deliver when it mattered. Not the best tennis you will see him play but he served well when he needed to (barring that 4th set!) and just had too much experience on the day for Cilic who played well in patches but never really looked like the winner out there.

In terms of the match, I thought both guys were quite up and down. Federer got off to a perfect start with Cilic looking very tentative in the opening exchanges. But then Marin then played a very solid second set to level after Roger struggled in the tie-break. The third saw Fed reset mentally and he served impeccably throughout to get back in front, but the fourth was the strangest of the match with Roger's head clearly scrambled. His first serve went AWOL (his first serve was 36% for the set) and he was having to play reactive tennis which is not his game. It looked like he'd made the mistake of thinking about crossing the finishing line and Cilic needed no second invitation to start dictating play with his forehand off the ground.

Saving that breakpoint at the start of the fifth was obviously a huge moment for Fed and it gave him a big boost mentally. He must have got a nice extra dose of energy too when he saw Mirka, Severin and Ivan all giving it the fist pumps in the box and from there he was able to wrestle control to break in the next game as Cilic faded.Β  We even got a standard run-in with Jake Garner with Fed giving him a piece of his mind for not reminding him when new balls were due saying: “Talk to me, talk to me, 3-0 in the fifth I can't do it all by myself” πŸ˜† fortunately no self-destruction a la 2009 here and he got himself over the line to record another peRFect result.

So another Slam done, perhaps not a blockbuster tournament overall like we had last year but you just have to admire the level of tennis Fed is able to produce week in week out. His unique style of tennis, a great team with Ivan and Severing cooking up the tactics, plus Mirka and the rest of his team/family supporting him all the way is a great recipe for success and he's able to keep that competitive fire burning and deliver career title number ninety-six.

Anyway, enough from me, I will leave the rest of the superlatives to you guys. Let me know what you thought of the final in the comments below πŸ™‚

rf20shirt

New limited edition shirt. How did they design and produce this just hours after his win? πŸ˜†Β  What do you think? Available here on Nike.com and Tennis Point.

Federer vs. Cilic Australian Open 2018 Rating

Serving
Returning
Net Play
Winner to Unforced Error Ratio
Break Point Conversion

ALLEZ!

Not the best level of tennis from both players but Roger too experienced in the big moments and wins an unparalleled 20th Grand Slam!

User Rating: 3.88 ( 19 votes)

Jonathan

Huge fan of Roger Federer - I'll pretty much try and watch all his matches from Grand Slam level right down to ATP 250. When I'm not watching or tweeting about tennis I play regularly myself and use this blog to share my thoughts on Fed and tennis in general.

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256 Comments

    1. Another win! Overwhelmed! So nervous watching it, thought he should have won in straight sets if not for the slight lapse in concentration.

  1. I am loss for words to describe my emotions here and I too was shedding tears when I saw Roger’s waterworks….even with Roger’s B game he still manage to pull off a W here. Perhaps quality of his opponent helps. I doubt he could win if it was Rafa or health Djoker across the net. I will sum it as ‘Great Escape’ as throughout the entire tournament he was mainly in his B game. Serve has been patchy, high UEs vs Winner ratios and yet he still keep himself in contention. This sets himself almost a world apart from the rest, his B game with variety and some clutch moments can propel one to win the entire tournament. The next gen need to take notes here if they want to be a better player, always be able to dig deep and improvise.

    Its been a good 2 weeks, now we all need a good rest after that roller coaster….thanks Jon for a quick recap, Go Rogerrr, No 20 GS!!!

    1. One more thing to add which is very important – this blog site. Thanks to Jon’s work and hours to hard labour keeping this site awesome, all of us would not have the chance to witness the historic #RF20 together in livechat. Its been awesome to be able to share HOLD, BREAK mantra with everyone. So happy to come across this website many years ago. Cheers to all Roger’s fans, we are living a dream…!!!

      1. Ditto. It has become such a great fun community thanks to J. And you are the most dedicated cheerleader among us, Dippy!

      2. Thanks Dippy πŸ™‚

        And I agree with Wanda, you have got one of the worst time differences for European matches but you are watching every one!

      3. Ahh yes, sleep I sacrifice just to watch Rogaa… got to catch as many of his matches I can while he is still playing. Honestly I dont know what am I going to do when he hangs up his racquet – crikeyyyy

  2. Thanks Jonathan for this amazing blog. Been following your blog for a long time (2014 maybe) but commenting for first time.
    20 is super special given that he had to wait 17 slams between 17 and 18. How easy it must have been for him to walk away and exist in the cosy realm of the record books given what he had achieved by 2012 . Yet he endured, never quit. The love for tennis and the love from the true fans kept him going which his emotions totally revealed today. Truly inspiring!

  3. GOAT ROGER! #20. Like I said I believe that Fed could have won this in 3 or 4 sets. Anyway, it’s a win! Now, I guess we all wish a #21…

  4. 20 grand slam titles!! That bad call at the beginning of the 5th set was the best thing that could have happened. It seemed to give Roger some intent and focus.

    Unusual to see him SO emotional during the award ceremony considering the final set wasn’t that close. Maybe retirement was running through his mind, it looked like he wanted to say something, but then changed his mind. Maybe he was injured? I noticed he changed his shirt off-court at the end of the 4th, back maybe? It’s probably stupid to read into nothing though.

    Maybe it was the emotions of his game not working so well but still coming through in big moments.

    Fed didn’t let the Hawkeye challenge on match point effect him this time πŸ˜€

    This surely cements his place as the greatest ever! A few commentators saying he’s possibly got 2-3 more left in him. For now, let’s enjoy this one <3

    1. It took Roger 4.5 years to get from 17-18 and now he’s won 3 in a span of 12 months. Can’t blame anyone getting emotional over an effort like that. No point thinking of retirement, just enjoy the moment.

    2. I think it was like he said afterward, the tournament had no real emotional moments to spill for him round by round. Going 5, winning a thriller etc. so was all built up by the final. And the crowd were going pretty crazy too after he won.

  5. Set 4 got me really mad. I think Feds is a bit sadistic, both to his opponents by giving them some hope and then taking the cake away, and also to us sick fans by making us pull the hair off only to settle the business a bit later. Ah, my wife made fun of me (nasty lady!) because I also let some tears roll out when Fed crumbled at the end of his speech. This time it seems that the emotional part was different. I don’t know exactly what it was, but it was more intense, as opposed to the tennis which was not that exciting…

    1. I really prepared myself for a big’ishly annoying slip of 20th after 4. set. I think Fed’s emotion came from relief because he got nervous too. He was overwhelmed at addressing his team “I love you…” – Their joy may have pushed his tear’ing.
      Well this is contagious I also shed some, and even now thinking of it.

    2. Even the original RF was crying in the crowd. Think it was only Mirka who kept her Pokerface :D. She could kill you with a look as well, I bet both sets of twins are well behaved.

      1. And one set of Roger πŸ˜‰ She’s the boss there. How can she weep if it’s all on her head? 4+1. For Roger to tear, Mirka must smile and remain a control over her 5 children πŸ™‚

  6. After tossing and turning with my phone on and off checking scores in the middle of the night, when it went to set 5 I was so annoyed that he might be letting it slip away, that I summoned my nerve and put the TV on–and what do you know? He breaks Cilic. And then again. For ONCE I was good luck for Fed. Rest, now, Fed. You have earned it. Kvelling.

    1. Oh Emily, me too – what, it’s only 6 am in Australia? & then they were one set apiece, and then he just SAILED through the third, and then the 4 th was somehow GONE, and the signal where I was periodically dropped out entirely… yep.

  7. Cilic played well in the middle sets, but Federer bookended the match with two dominant sets. After last year’s Aus Open, I had really really told myself that this was enough for me as a greedy fan, that anything else would be extra cherries on the cake (or like putting oil to the head of a person who already has oiled her hair, as we say in Bengali). But this amazing, peerless genius just goes on with the “fairytale”! AND cries at the end of it all as if he’s relishing it as much as his first GS. Of course, I was tearing up, too! May he keep on playing as long as he loves tennis….Just so happy to be his fan tonight,

      1. Yep, I been get punished in school days if I don’t do that…and you know what, when I traveled US first time they had instruction note saying try avoid that if possible πŸ™‚ ….[ Along with many other notes, classic one is how to interact with Police office. In India you get stop in traffic go to police and talk..That’s easiest way to get shot in US..so glad they told about that though πŸ™‚ ]

  8. Waking up at 3 am to watch the game was an absolute must. What a thrill! It is always such a pleasure to watch Roger’s game but last night it was even more so : his moves were so smooth and yet so precise his shots were amazingly strong and most of all how timely he recuperated himself after the 4th set. Cilic was up to the occasion all the credit to him.
    Thank you Roger! It was another unbelievable win ! You are the G O A T ! You are TENNIS.
    LOVE YOU!

  9. I did a match call for this match, although it was the middle of the night for me. But doing that helped calm my nerves in this roller coaster match. Am glad some people here said they shed some tears. I admitted that on another site and left myself open for some teasing. But it wasn’t Fed’s win or even his own tears that got me going. It was a combination of Fed tearing up, then a shot of the great Rod Laver recording Fed’s speech, and then a close-up of Robbie crying – that was just too much to handle!

    I have vowed that I am not going to ask for anything more from Roger, just that he continue to play. Whatever his results, I am going to be happy just that we still get to see him on the court. πŸ™‚

    1. What is a match call?

      > I have vowed that I am not going to ask for anything more from Roger, just that he continue to play.

      I will believe that when I see it, you were on here calling a clown in that fourth set and that his game was terrible πŸ˜†

  10. I usually hate sunday night, because of the work on monday. But Roger just made my monday (maybe even the whole week) bearable.

    Congrats to Roger for #RF20, and hoping for many more to come.

    For Jonathan, thanks for the amazing write up in 2 weeks and also thanks for this blog. Really help me through the up and down (wimbly 2012, nightmare 2013, the so-so 2014/15, sad 2016, great 2017, and hopefully continue until he retires).

    When I read Katyani mentioned that Roger will win 25 GS and plays until 40yo, I always thinking it was a kind of joke (back then he just have 16GS and everyone is speculating his retirement already). Now it takes only 5 more GS to make it come trough.

    Congrats to all Fed Fans!

    1. Cheers Amar πŸ™‚

      Yeah who would have that Katyani’s prediction is actually getting closer. Although it’s probably at 30 slams now given he’s won 3 in 12 months.

  11. Thank you Jonathan for the past fortnight for your brilliant posts. What an ending πŸ™‚ ! Completely agree with you. Roger’s wondering-off nearly cost him and us πŸ™‚ dear in the 4th set leading and serving at 3:2. That wondering about lasted about the subsequent three service games! very surprising. In the end, Roger could kind of say that he had scripted a few more drams to have made it more competitive and interesting, not one-sided πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ but it was not for faint-hearted πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ .
    Allez congratulations to Roger and to us all Fed fans! The FedExpress rolls on!

  12. Just happy that he got it done. He looked quite shaky for a while At 4:3 serving in the 4th, he had a chance to even it at 4:4. When that didn’t work, Cilic had all the momentum and I was so relieved when Roger got the hold in the first service game to open the fifth. That was the absolutely key to the match. Breaking for 5:2 made it so much easier. Not sure if he would have been able to keep it together to serve at 5:3 but anyway.

    Congrats, Roger! You are AWESOME!!! Number 20!!!

    Amazing, amazing.

  13. Hope Roger never retires.We always keep reminding ourselves that Roger is 36-37 so how the hell he’s going to be a favourite of a tournament he enters.The passion, dedication and hard work he puts in day after day,is what sets him apart.I think we should stop talking about his age,when he’s gonna retire,etc. instead cherish the legacy he has given the sport.GS #21 Wimbledon,for sure.

    1. Tbf it is only the press and tv pundits who are talking about age all the time. Non stop reminders he’s 36! But I agree with Fed, someone his age should not be favourite for slams.

  14. Thank you so much Jonathan and all the lovely fans on this site! We need to give Mirka a big thank you because she is happy with Roger continuing to play. He has said many times, when she’s done, so is he. So thank you to her and the rest of the family and team.
    I have a “18” GS t-shirt I bought last year at IW. That is so so out of date now! Actually, I do like it better than the “20” one.
    I was so tired I just couldn’t stay up but awoke at 4am and turned on the tv at the ceremony. Not used to crying 4am while not quite awake! I believe he was crying because of the gratitude he feels towards the fans. That’s when he broke down.
    I haven’t sat down to watch the match yet. Being greedy, I would love to see Roger return to #1, even for a short while. Like Hartt said, I can’t really ask for more.
    This man is such an inspiration to the world of tennis and to the world in general. Live like him and you will have a beautiful life!

  15. Great to see a 20 slams winner still crying at that win: shows how much he loves this sport.

    And how about that half volley moving backwards in set 2 or 3… absolutely ridiculous…

    Great end to the fortnight!

    1. Yes, Simon, I thought that half volley winner was the shot of the match. The accuracy on a short hop is incredible.
      The BHDTL is spectacular but we have seen it so often from Fed it’s not so insane….

  16. Well he did it! A wonderful match,all the ebbs and flows of a five setter.Absolutely crucial was that hold of serve at
    the beginning of the fifth set.I think it was Becker who said that winning the fifth set is more about mental than physical strength and Fed certainly came through both mentally and physically.All credit to Cilic also who gave his all to make this such a memory final.He seems such a nice man,quite sensitive and shy I think.
    So 20 slam wins for Fed and the best bit of all is that Nadal will have to win five more to surpass him.Vamos brigade in meltdown as the GOAT argument is ended.πŸ€—
    Well done to Roger,his team and his family.

  17. After the victory, Roger said : “When I start thinking about what I was going to say, every subject I touch actually is very meaningful and very emotional. Thanking your team, congratulating Marin, thanking the people, thanking the tournament. At the end it’s like one big party.

    But I hoped over time in the speech I would start to relax a little bit, but I couldn’t. It was what it was. I wish it wasn’t so sometimes. At the same time I’m happy I can show emotions and share it with the people. If I got emotional, it’s because it was a full crowd again. No people in the stadium wouldn’t make me emotional, I’ll tell you that. This is for them really also.”

    I love this man – so grateful and class.
    HisΒ  joy this morning was ours.
    Thanks to him and his great team.
    So discreet Ljubicic especially deserves huge congrats !

    Now it is time for celebration ! The come back to Switzerland will be tremendous…

  18. #20…Wow. Simply the GOAT. How lucky we are to be alive at the same time as this incredible human being (or god?).
    The match was far from peRFect and a roller coaster up and down with some genius plays and some lame wobbles. But the fighting spirit was there. The win meant so much to him, his tears said it all.
    Was I the only one freaked out to see him overcoming with emotion and not saying β€œSee you next year!”? Dude, you have another 5 more to go according to Katyani Wisdom, okay?
    Thanks Jonathan for the awesome job last 2 weeks. Well done! Both Fed’s team and you deserve great holidays.

    Here’s a good piece of his 20 titles.
    https://interactive.swissinfo.ch/2018_01_28_federer20/en.html#/en

    1. Hey Wanda, should I leave it at “Roger will win 25 GS” or should I make it into “Roger will win 30 GS”?? πŸ™‚

      Nah… I’ll give Olderer a pass… I’ll keep it at him winning JUST 25 GS πŸ™‚

  19. Great writeup Jonathan many thanks. Great posts from the many Fed Fans, and lastly Congratulations
    to The Great Roger Federer, enjoy your win and leave us wondering how can you top this x

  20. Absolutely overjoyed the great one has gone again and I have to admit I ddoubted him when his serve deserted him in the 4th set. I was a nervous wreck going into the 5th set. It was one of the strangest matches he has ever played. He said his mind was scrambled going into the decider, yet he stood firm to hold of two break points and delivered when it really counted. I am forever in awe of his greatness. He’s no longer a teenager in the Grand Slam Arena he’s 20 now. Loved this Birthday can’t wait to celebrate the great man’s 21st. But this one is truest special. 20ger perfection as always.❀️

      1. 20% is a great number considering he has continued to play at this age. And 10% has been paid in taxes Federer for the 200 slams that have been played in the open era.

  21. The match was quite a roller coaster. In the 4th set and parts of the 2nd Federer was bullied around by Cilic. He was forced to defend so much – in the 4th I don’t even remember seeing a single forehand winner , I’m sure he must have had one or two. Cilic gave him NO short balls to attack. I was ready for him to lose the 5th because Cilic had all the momentum and had a lot of positive body language.
    As I watched the speech I felt somehow that he was thinking this was the last time for him in Australia. But reading a bit of the press conference I get a different impression. I guess it was just the emotion of the whole event, and the fact that he was stuck on 17 for so long and never really thought of 20.

    The part that I liked, I think it was the 5th set, was where Cilic hit a first serve to which Federer hit a return winner. The serve was called out so it had to be replayed, though it turned out to be in. Federer said ‘nice call, buddy’ to the linesman. He is a normal human being after all, although he sort of has to act perfect all the time. That is what makes him likeable. As someone said he could have hung it up after 2016, losing to Djokovic in 3 Slam finals and then AO 2016 SF. But he stuck around.

    I think if Federer plays Dubai (he has nothing to really defend after losing to Donskoy in the first round) then he could get back No. 1 unless Nadal goes on to the semi finals of Acapulco. I’m 100% sure Nadal will recover from his injury and will play there, but I think it’s worth it for Federer to play Dubai and try for that no. 1 even if it’s just a few weeks. I think ti’s unrealistic for him to defend both IW and Miami, but he could play IW and then take a 3 month break until Stuttgart/Halle.

    1. Never thought I’d see the day where Roger is winning back to back Australian Open titles whilst Novak is on the sidelines injured. Sports huh.

  22. Well he did it with nerves on, too much thinking during day and match and bad sleep. Hope his confidence rises for seeing what he can do, even if mind makes a circus…

  23. Great blog, Thks for all yr write ups Jon, lovely comments all. Fun to read about all our emotions pouring out! Boy did I cry at that ceremony! 😭😭
    And here we are at 20! Who would hv thought it after the agonising wait for 18! I don’t think Rog cld believe it either, no wonder he was so nervous. Said he cldnt switch his brain off all day, and clearly thought about the end result in set 4! Mind blown! Credit to Marin who I like more and more. Genuine contender and all round nice guy!
    Do we hv net stats? He seemed to come in so little? Was that nerves? Worry about Marins power? I was screaming at him to come in in set 4 but the serve was so off it was possibly a risk..
    Not enough is said about Ivan. His apppintment has been a stroke of genius. Always positive, always looking to make Rog a better player!
    I am overwhelmed by Rog’s achievement! And 3 slams in 12 months?? Mad!
    Hope he misses clay again and gets 21 at Wimby!

    Cheers to you all but especially to Rog! 🍾🍾🐐

  24. Hey Jonathan and everyone, hope all is well, been a little while but thought I needed to check back in after the last 12 months. Looking back at 2013, it’s fair that no one could have predicted this day and especially in Melbourne nonetheless. This is why sports is so beautiful. You really have no idea what’s going to happen and the outpouring of emotion in that ceremony encaptures the rawness of such moments that not even someone who has gone through it 20 times can escape. No player can be bigger than the game but I’ll be damned if no one comes as close as Fed and the RLA crowd represented nearly every crowd that Roger plays in front of. He’s playing at home no matter where he goes and that’s just something I doubt we’ll ever see again.

    I’m not sure what’s more impressive about Roger in this stage of his career. Fixing up weaknesses in his game like the BH or being incedibly mentally resillient in the big moments. I don’t know how he’s doing it but am not going to under-estimate pure love for the game in its contribution.

    As for the tournament and the final- it was very ordinary. Roger’s win of course will provide a good narrative but really hoping the rest of the year picks up from the ATP perspective. Other than that, hoping everyone is soaking up the ocassion and that 2018 has more suprises in store. #RF20.

  25. Perhaps now Fed should just enjoy himself (He probably does already) not bust a gut(leave that to Nadal and the joker)chasing more titles,records etc.He has won everything and done everything.Time to have fun enjoy his family and travelling and just play tournaments and events where he has commitments and enjoys playing .Just a thought.

      1. He looks like he can go for another two years. If the field doesn’t step up, why not win a few more slams? The victory speech on Sunday did scare me though. Isn’t he supposed to say the customary, “See you next year!”?

      2. Sid, he choked in tears, could not tell all at that moment. Asked later he said, oh yes of course, don’t worry I certainly hope (and plan) to come next year and see you all again!

      3. That’s good. Hope they keep the court speeds good. I felt this year was a bit slower than last. Never got to see the ball skidding like last year. A Slam won, nevertheless.

        From 2008-2016 (9 years), the courts were slow. Can they keep it fast for another year, please?

  26. Thank You, Jonathan, for your prompt analysis of Roger’s 20th GS Title. We come to you to express our admiration to one of the greatest, most humble tennis players known to us. We all admire his achievements, his team, and most of all his family,
    Congratulations, Roger! We love you……

  27. Hard to believe he has got to 20 GS’s now. I was sure that his total would stop at 17 after those close defeats to Novak at Wimbledon and he has absolutely proved me wrong when I said that he didn’t have the legs to win grand slams anymore.

    Today wasn’t a classic, but it was a different type of victory – he scrapped it out when I thought he was running out of ideas and showed great mental strength. I have to disagree with Jonathan on the point about Cilic not looking like he was ever likely to win. When Fed was letting him dictate and his backhand slice was regularly teeing up Cilic for fierce groundstroke winners I thought that Marin was looking the strong favourite.

    But Cilic couldn’t quite get the break in the 5th which could have been decisive and from then on his belief drained bit by bit, and Roger grew in confidence again.

    I think getting to 20 probably puts him out of reach of Nadal, who I expect to win between 1-3 more before he calls it quits. That said, Uncle Toni did say he thinks Nadal will beat Rog’s total and no doubt they will keep plugging away. It remains to be seen if Rafa will be out there when he is 36.

    Another amazing day then for Federer and fans, just have to treasure them while we can.

    1. Agree in most, Neil, nicely put by you. But really I almost hope that Roger quits clay again and stays fresh for his beloved grass courting πŸ™‚ And then Rafa has chance to make it again, staying no. 1. And so what? What Roger has done and still is doing is much more amazing to me. Well, get to no. 1 preferably for several weeks or months would be cool, oh YES (of course), but please Roger, have unconditioned fun all way through!

    2. I too thought 17 was probably the final numbers. It’s my favourite after all so wouldn’t have been too bothered πŸ™‚

      Rafa prob got a few more in him but depends on how his knees hold up.

  28. I forgot to thank Jonathan for all his efforts during the Hopman Cup and the Australian Open. I don’t always comment on many of the blogs on the site. To busy campaigning for the human rights of disabled people. It’s a difficult time for us right now. But one of the real joys I get amidst all the pressure is coming to this site and reading all his insightful blogs and everybody’s comments. It sounds ridiculous but this site often lifts me up after what we all face at times are difficult days. Congratulations to all of you for your contributions. Keep writing I will never play the game, but I can read. Thanks again Jonathan. R20federer. Hopefully hear from you all again in Dubai. Or maybe if I’m lucky sooner.

  29. Hey guys, I guess not becoming world nr 1 was a blessing in disguise right? He already was the whole day nervous about winning 20. What would have happened if he had an extra weight on his shoulders about also having the chance to become world nr 1??
    That will happen, I hope he doesn’t force himself to become it. Like he did by playing Toronto. That did miss his chances for USO.

    If he would have won USO, oh my God…. he would have gone at RG for 4 in a row…. I know… I am dreaming, but like I said… before Roger does the R-word, there will be a or there will be talk about a “Roger Slam” πŸ™‚

    Congrats to us all for believing in him and having faith in him. Go Roger !!!

  30. Oh and one more thing…. I read on TL and stuff that many thought when Roger cried that he would maybe retire (or say something like that). But I did not see that at all. Not even in the way his box were behaving.
    Last year, honestly, I couldn’t enjoy winning AO 2017 as much as I would have liked to, because Roger almost gave me a heartattack by saying “hope to see you next year, if not, this has been a great run”.
    I thought dude, why are you talking like that, don’t you dare think about retirement.
    But this year, when he cried, it did not cross my mind AT ALL. He is not going to retire soon. Yes, he will play less and choose his tours and take more rest, but no… no retirement. And to be honest… Mirka wouldn’t let him πŸ™‚

    1. After the win finally registered in my mind (I was a mental wreck after that fourth set), I thought about your wisdom Katyani πŸ™‚
      And just like you, I was so emotional myself during that speech that I didn’t even notice he didn’t say see you next year… it looked like an evidence that he will come back eventually… whereas last year the “if not” got me scared for a long time that he might be on a farewell tour indeed..
      Anyway, enough talk and let’s enjoy #RF20 for as long as possible πŸ™‚ and who knows? Better things are coming our way maybe… We’ll just have to remember who said it first πŸ˜‰ #KatyaniWisdom

    2. I can’t see him retiring like that tbh. So I wasn’t worried. Like he said the tournament as a whole didn’t have many moments for him where emotion could escape like it did last year with Berd, Nishi, Stan and Rafa.

  31. πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    πŸ™‚
    πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    1. Nice!! Would love to know what Roger himself felt during each of these AO, FO, Wimby and USO triumps. Maybe someday he’ll write his memoir.

    2. 🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏
      🐏
      🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏
      🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏

  32. Decent match from Federer, obviously not vintage but from his interviews it is clear he was very nervous about getting slam no.20, a bit like the Haas match at RG in 2009 or the Roddick match at Wimbledon 2009, Bennetteau in 2012 etc. Did enough to get the job done though and extends his lead over Rafa still further, quite possibly ending Nadal’s hopes of catching Roger permanently. Obviously could have made things a lot easier, could have won in 3 or 4 but it really doesn’t matter in the end. Onto Wimbledon (I’m assuming he won’t play the French)!

    Also, interesting battle for No.1 developing with Roger only a couple of hundred points behind, Nadal has to make semis in Acapulco or Federer regains No.1 again. I think Cilic could be the next Wawrinka as well, he’s playing well enough to take another slam or two. Looking forward to the rest of the year now, plenty of tennis still to be played and Roger already has a slam in the bag!

    P.S. I had trouble logging into live chat during the match, it just wouldn’t work for some reason, I would hit login and nothing happened. Don’t know if it is a problem on my end or yours, do you have any ideas Jon?

  33. Really glad I had to go out just after Roger had been broken in set 4, otherwise I might have been a total nervous wreck. Just got back in time for the presentation ceremony πŸ™‚

    1. So you left it to all of us doing the hard work getting through to the win? Well understand you, Alison, considered same thing, really fretting, but fortunately my a** was glued to the chair and eyes to the screen…

  34. All through the tournament I’m thinking Norman can’t possibly leave Fed’s family so to take his 20th.eclisping his own history and equalling Emerson and Novak at the AO was a very satisfying outcome.
    Fed is the ultimate professional with the true amateur spirit & what he brings to Tennis and our lives defies words and engenders a range of emotion which sustain us beyond what we share together. I am forever grateful that Roger Federer plays on and his precious gifts find expression in the game of tennis.

    Jonathan, like our hero your efforts are truly appreciated and I cannot thank you enough for all you do to provide this wondeRFul site .

    1. Thanks πŸ™‚

      Yeah it’s been a very strong era across sports really to enjoy. Federer, Woods, Messi, Taylor, Hirscher all at the very top of their game.

      I wonder when someone will break the 20 Grand Slams record? Nadal still has a small chance but if he can’t do it then it will be a long wait I think.

  35. Very glad he got it done in the end. Should have won in three, the nervous way Cilic started the match. When he had a breakpoint to go up 5-4 in the second, I thought this could be over soon. Oh boy, what a roller coaster when you wake up at 3:00 am to watch the finals. I wish I stayed back in Australia for a few more days instead of being back in New York. Like you said, Roger started thinking about taking Norman home too early in the forth set being up a break and almost messed up this dream start to the year. So relieved that he was able to get it done. I guess we will see less of Roger this year than last based on his comments about smarter scheduling. As long as he is healthy and keeps winning the big ones, I think less is more. If #1 happens, fine. If not, he has been there more than any of the others behind him combined. So, who cares. #20at36OnlyRoger.

  36. This run just won’t stop! Roger’s tears are because he continues to be in disbelief about what’s he doing since Jan 2017. Unreal to witness this after the events of 2013-2016.

  37. YaY Yay Yay! I don’t know where to start! First of all thanks Jonathan for having this blog and for creating this nice Fed Fan community.
    Last year I had so little faith I watched alone and even turned off the TV after the 4th set (against Nadal). Only turned it back on when Fed was serving for it. This year I watched with a friend and it was so satisfying to go through all the emotions together. In fact I wanted to stop watching in the 4th again, but Fed luckily turned it around early in the 5th so we didn’t all have to rush out for cardiac care!
    I do think Fed might play Dubai, after all he has a home there and usually plays it every year. I think his shock exit last year came because his brain was fried from the AUSOPEN 2017 and hopefully it won’t happen again. So, very good chances for Fed to return to # 1 and not even have to change his schedule..no one can accuse him of chasing #1 the way Nadal or Murray did.

  38. Thank you Jon for the amazing blogging over the past few weeks and providing the live chat space. It’s been some incredible weeks here for me with Fed fans celebrating his wins.

    I ask so disagree what we said Cilic never looked like he was in the position to win. After he won five games in a row in set 4, he had all the momentum and it really didn’t look good for Roger. I seriously didn’t think fed would have the stamina to keep up with the heavy hitting from Cilic. That first game in set five was massive. I don’t think he’d have been able to recover had he lost that. I honestly don’t know where he found the strength to come through that game.

    Hey here we go again – roof gate and favouritism. Just when I thought Cilic was graceful loser. Seriously he had to spoil the party of Fed and all his fans straight after?

    1. I think his comments may have been taken slightly out of context.He must have benefited from the roof closure himself. He was red in the face and dripping with sweat. Goodness knows what state he would have been in with an open roof and the heat and humidity.Perhaps joining poor Halep in hospital for rehydration. However he took his defeat with far more grace than Nadal last year. If looks could kill Roger would have been dead a thousand times.😎

    2. Thanks April and thanks to everyone who comments and shares their thoughts on here too πŸ™‚

      I agree about Cilic having momentum, but to me if he looked like the winner then he’d have pulled it off. A more experienced player does not let Fed off the hook after that fourth set. But that 1st game no doubt huge, perhaps if Fed is broken he can’t get back there.

      1. The bad line call early in the 5th seemed to reset Fed/distract him from No.20. Maybe it was a good thing because he started playing better.

        I’ve read that the referee decided to close the roof for the final because they had word about Halep being hospitalised for dehydration and they didn’t want to risk the same for Fed/Cilic. Imagine the PR disaster if Fed had to be hospitalised at 36yo for extreme heat conditions.

      2. Ah well, remember last year, Jonathan. He might have come back this year too. But for our hearts’ health, nice that 5’th was convincing from quite early!

  39. “One should not be a favorite, at 36” – Federer.
    When the movement slowed and the reflexes were not it used to be, he compensated that by aggressive improved Backhand and a new racquet. I wonder if the accomplishments that Rafa and Nole have achieved would be as profound, had Fed made these adjustments earlier. He just cemented the fact that his best is better than anybody who has ever played the game.
    Good blog once again, Jonathan.

    1. Cheers. I agree with him though, who is coming through!? Dimitrov is threatening and he made the quarters despite having no second serve and the yips on his first πŸ˜† but I dunno if tennis is in a great place at the minute?

  40. If Cilic had a problem with the roof closed then he could put in a complaint with the AO away from the media. It’s not Fed’s choosing to close the roof. I wanted Halep to win but she didn’t use the ice towel (until near the end) or hydrate enough before and during the match.
    Why taint Roger’s historic win with decisions beyond his control. I mean look who the chair ump was!

    1. Yes some of those umpires are not great,especially that Greek woman who actually apologised to
      Nadal that his ball was out! There will always be people seeing conspiracies everywhere.It was a great and historic win,which will probably never be equalled.Let us just rejoice in that.πŸ˜ƒ

  41. Help me understand. The roof was closed and the reason given was the humidity being above a critical level.

    [ ] Now, was the humidity indeed above a level where the roof was allowed to be closed?
    [ ] Or, was the humidity not above a critical level and the roof was close so Roger could have an advantage and beat Cilic?

    Which one is true?

    1. The extreme heat rule is SUPPOSED to comprise TWO elements: ambient temp AND humidity. Apparently they take that ambient temperature in the shade (?!), even though players play in the sun (for day matches, anyway). Not clear where/how they take the humidity reading. So I don’t really think it’s deliberate sabotage, but I DO think they need to review their parameters, because people on the ground were apparently saying the temperature threshold had not been met – so where/how were they measuring that? Even Roger expressed surprise that the heat rule even applied at night. And clearly it doesn’t adequately address the reality for players in the sun, where temps on court can be 20 degrees higher than “ambient” – though that’s irrelevant for this final, of course.

      1. All this talk about roofs, temperature, humidity, entropy, refractive index, dew point, Joule-Thompson effect, glass transition temperature, aromatic electrophylic substitution, chicken curry and whatnot is a bunch of crap talk puked by haters who will stop at nothing to detract from the one fundamental thing: None of their pets can reach with their raised arms the heights that Fed steps on with his heels. Ok. Now I will take my medication.

  42. I suppose one could also consider the audience sweltering in high temperatures and humidity.We were in Greece last year when they had a heatwave.Temps were 46 in the daytime,there was no breeze and it didn’t cool down till
    about 4 o clock in the morning.If we hadn’t had air conditioning we would have gone mad,and that was dry heat not
    Humid.Also large amounts of people create heat too.At the first day in Basle last year I foolishly wore a cashmere jumper without a tea shirt underneath so I couldn’t take it off.By mid afternoon I was seriously uncomfortable but outside the temperature was about 16 degrees I guess.So I think they were quite right to close the roof.Fed would have won with it open anyway,he has a home and practises in Dubai,not exactly the coolest place on earth.πŸ™‚

    1. Well, when you consider that one person generates around 100 W of heat energy, that’s one pretty decent power station watching a match!

    2. Fed said in one of his interviews that Bencic said it was stupidly warm with the roof closed and he thought she was being OTT but then he went on court and realised how warm it was.

      1. And that BB roof closure was before the temp was even at the levels of the night match, wasn’t that for rain?

        I think when the organisers realised at 7 it was 6 degrees hotter than the night before at the same time and Halep had ended up in hospital they enacted the wet bulb rule!

        People pay a fortune for the tickets too & they don’t want discomfort or to see Fed collapse. Fed said without aircon it would have probably favoured him as Marin is quite big. Same reason Novak decided to cook poor Gael, he worked out it could be an advantage.
        Fed doesn’t train in Dubai heat for fun does he?

  43. I’m not crying! You’re crying!!! Still so nervous in the 4th set though.. πŸ™ I didn’t celebrate like crazy unlike last year but here, I cried when he cries like that. so much emotion. Credit to cilic that really banging his racket. Thankfully Federer has enough experience to handle that specially in the first game of fifth set!!

    Enough of those haters. its like he won just because of the roof. anyways im happy right now. its the best gift for me since I finished my masters degree last thursday. And i really prayed for Fed to win.. Dont care if he skip the French Open. but maybe he can changed his mind.. πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ and I love that shirt.. really……

    1. Yeah this year’s AO was filled with controversy that just didn’t exist. Roof, night sessions, temperature. Tbf these reporters on site are all just after more exposure on Twitter so they will spin any old shit.

      1. Past player pundits are also pretty good at promulgating controversy, which sells, for their networks too sadly.

      2. Its Jims fault.. hahaha… but I love that guy anyways… Its just ruined to moment for Fed.but they cannot take away the 20 grandslam from him…

      1. It’s not too long. It is showing our hero in highlights from all his AO18 matches. The music is very well chosen, emphasizing the heart stirring experience of the old star keeping his radiance and brilliancy for the delight of many many people. True love prevailing. Special. Thanks, Butterfly for bringing this to our attention.

    1. He was choked up. In 2009, I was misty eyed after that brutal loss. He was called a sore loser, taking credit away from Nadal. In 2018, I was misty eyed again but for a different reason. Will he now be considered a sore winner?

      Those who do not understand those tears, have never loved anything passionately in their lives, and never will.

      1. That uncontrollable sobbing to have distorted the handsome face in 2009 AO broke my heart and at the same time cemented my eternal love to the Maestro πŸ™‚ .

    2. I say this on behalf of Roger: “My back hurts, my legs weaken, my knees buckle but as long as I play my tears never dry up. When that happens, I am done”.

  44. 156. That’s how many obstacles stand between Roger and the World No.1 ranking. That’s the exact number of points Roger needs to overtake Nadal.

    What do you guys think should be his strategy? Play Amsterdam? Accumulate 180 points or even the full 500? Play Dubai where he can only gain points and get some cushion for Indian Wells and Miami? Nadal can gain an IW too. Then rest, rest, rest, all of the clay season where Nadal won’t have much to gain. After Wimbledon, he might lose the ranking again as Nadal has plenty of points to gain. It depends on how well Nadal does too. Heck, Roger may even play some clay.

    I’d say, now is the best time to get in a solid 8 to 12 weeks at No.1. Amsterdam and Dubai?

    1. Agree with Sue, the below. Hope he plays Dubai since he’s got home and trains there anyway. And this year AO wasn’t too tough physically compare to 2017. No.1 in sight, we are so greedy, aren’t we?

      1. Why not both? Get the ranking, do good at IW and Miami, then rest the entire clay season, and stay No.1 it till the second week of July, at least. That’s a whopping 14 to 15 weeks!

    2. Isnt it better for Roger to focus on defending 2 masters event, If he must pick one its better to do it a Dubai since he has a home there. As for clay, I really hope he skips the entire clay but I suspect he is itching to play at least 1 master and FO. I am sure Guy Forget is dying for him to be at RG this year. The other 3 GS has enjoyed tons of ticket sales so why not RG. IMHO it is very important to defend his SW19 title.

      1. Something tells me he just might do French Open this year. At least he hasn’t said he won’t. Or, has he?

      2. Yeah, Dippy. Dubai, IW but not defending Miami, skip early clay (I’ll sacrifice not to see him at Micky C), then maybe Rome and FO? And gets some rest to go for Halle and Wimby #9, hah!

      3. I meant 5 days, 2 weeks in a row for masters…isn’t it too much for the old man? I know he did it last year. But I don’t want to see him hurt. Remember what happened before USO ’17.

      4. I would bet if he will play clay on Dubai, IW, skipping Miami, playing Rome or Madrid (most prob. Rome), playing FO, skipping Halle, and Wimbledon.
        Would be interesting if he plays clay this year. It would have been interesting to see how he would perform last year and even this one if he will play clay.

      5. @Alison
        While I don’t think Fed to skip Halle, there are thousands ways to do this, no matter the lifetime agreement, if he needed to skip it.
        I don’t see, why should he skip Halle deliberately. He likes grass and there are not many tournaments on grass to win. He plays either Stuttgart-Halle-Wimbledon or skips Stuttgart.

  45. I just changed my password at work. Ok, who else uses tennis, Roger, etc in their passwords. Or is it just me that is weird?

    Sid, I guess it’s how Fed feels about playing. I doubt he will play anything but Dubai. I don’t think #1 means much to him at this point. Personally, I’d like to see him #1 one more time.

    1. Hi hi hi ! Me !
      I changed my password at work last Friday evening, after the semi-final… the new one is : Believe20… (I also had changed it after Wimby’17 : it was GS19Wim and before the London WTF : it was Number01… ok, ok, the latter didn’t work well…).

      Last Sunday, one of my colleagues and Fedfan-friend for many years agreed to dress in red and white to honour the Swiss flag for the whole week, to celebrate GS20… completely silly girls …and we are not at all teenagers !! πŸ™‚ I guess we should consult a doctor… or not.

      I advise you to read this (in French) :

      http://www.illustre.ch/magazine/pourquoi-jaime-federer

      Nice day to you all.

    2. Yes, of course me too. Goat, RF, 8881, 8, 20 or anything to do with the guy. Even my name is Wilson Wand(a). We are all weirdos πŸ˜†

  46. I think he should do exactly what he did last year. That worked out fairly well!
    OTOH, I would love to see him beat Rafa at the FO.

  47. It is not absolutely a given that Nadal will win or even progress far in Acapulco,there are some big servers due to play there and he is coming back from injury(albeit very minor).Is Acapulco before Dubai?If so Fed could perhaps get back to number 1 without even lifting his racket😊

  48. After the injury plague since 2017 the only thing counting is Fed-Rafa rivalry. So long not injured, Rafa was battling (and losing) in Roger’s territory.
    Has Roger courage to enter this year Nadal’s territory? Lot’s of extra advantages are there. Djokovic and Wawrinka probably still playing challenger level. Rafa maybe not fully recovered from knee injury.
    And if you tak this aspect of the rivalry: winning on rival’s territory – Nadal is still in lead with 6 slam crowns on Fed’s territory and only 1 Fed’s crown on clay.

    1. And why exactly, do you, nincompoop, think that hard courts are Roger territory? Hard courts are neutral territory. Clay and grass represent the two ends of the surface spectrum. Grass is Roger’s territory, not hard courts.

      1. You don’t need to use all offending Yankee slang resources against me. You declared some time ago, not to answer my posts. But of course you can always change your mind, I don’t care.
        I don’t know about your education, but, maybe you missed all math teaching.
        Fed has 20 slam crowns: 1 on clay, 8 on grass, 11 on hard (55% of all).
        Nadal has 16: 10 on clay, 2 on grass, 4 on hard.
        Roger’s overall titles: 11 on clay, 17 on grass, 66 on hard (70% of all)
        Nadal’s overall titles: 53 on clay, 4 on grass, 18 on hard
        Federer-Nadal H2H record 15:23, 11 of 15 Roger’s wins on hard, 2 on grass, 3 on clay
        Grass is special for small number of tournaments. It’s Wimbledon (for an old tradition) and some pre-Wimbledon preparation tournaments. So grass is not comparable with clay. But grass is comparable with hard. Son one end of the spectrum is clay, another is hard+grass.
        Of course you may ignore numbers if you want. Just think about conditions of the game (if you know, what is tennis about) .

  49. IMHO, Roger shouldn’t play the clay season again in 2018.
    We see him play a very offensive and aggressive tennis that relies on a very efficient serve game. This year in the AO it was his serve that allowed him to win a GS with his B game most of the time.
    That advantage is obscured on the clay and it will be difficult for Roger to dictate his playing style on the opponets as he did in the AO and last year as well.
    This means he will be physicaly more exhausted in games and the risk of injury grows.
    So it’s better to focus in what he’s best at. Maybe in his last couple of seasons (I have a feeling it will be 2020) it will be nice of him to participate and let the fans in Paris have their farewell. If he has plans to play more years he should not play the clay season.

    I think this is what he’ll do and this year’s schedule will be similar to 2017. Maybe he’ll play Cincy and not Toronto, but that’s mostly it.

    1. [That advantage is obscured on the clay]

      It’s not that the advantage is obscured on clay. It means that the skill is not rewarded on clay. Hard courts are neutral and reward all skills and styles of play. Clay rewards only one skill; endurance.

      1. Look here http://nessis.org/nessis13/kovalchik.pdf
        Matches on grass are in average 10 minutes longer than on clay. Rallies on clay are by 7 seconds longer than on grass, but only 2 seconds longer than on hard. Rallies on grass were/are always konger than on other surfaces.
        So in average you need more endurance on grass than on clay.
        You say “only one skill: endurance”. Is endurance Roger’s deficit? How many 5-setters played last year in Melbourne?
        Have you ever tried to play tennis on grass? If not, try to imagine, watching football. On clay you can slide, thus saving your joints and avoiding injuries. To play on grass (after some matches, it’s no more grass but soil) is the most dangerous for joints and tendons. The most healthy surface is obviously clay. Hard surface is a killer and should be banned from tennis.

      2. Grass is rewarding big serve and dropshot. And the ability (inborn or learned) to move well on grass. Good preparation for tennis on ice.

      3. Ah, you idiot. You proved me right. If more points are being played on grass, compared to clay, it means players are more evenly matched. The lop sided nature of clay courts tells you that one player typically dominates and the other at some point gives up. Look at how one sided the 2008 French open final was. Compare that to how even Wimbledon 2008.

        If rallies on clay are 7 seconds longer than grass, it proves my point. It means there are lesser ways to finish points and that’s what I meant when I said that it does not reward a variety of skills, merely you ability to keep the ball in play.

        Grass rewards big serves and drop shots? Hmmm…looks like volleying is not allowed. No, you moron. Roger won eight Wimbledon’s not because of his big serve, but his location serves and his net skills which are the best we’ve seen in the last 15 years or so.

        But an idiot like you would only cherry pick information from that documents (whoever the fuck that guys is).

        If this were my blog, I would’ve kicked you out a long time ago. I thought you said you were never going to return to this blog. Truly a man who keeps his words then, you are.

      4. I love your inventive effort to find offensive words. This is why I’m sometimes back here. On some forum for normal humans, where netiquette is some value, you were banned long ago. But what counts here is to defend (???) Federer against alleged enemies, while telling at the same time, the whole world is loving him.
        You choose from stats what’s fitting your predefined mindset. The thing is not so simple to use stats only and to interpret stats … ask Bismarck or Goering.
        Let Roger aside for a while and look if grass is not favorising big servers. For a simple reason. If played fast and from the height or placed well and hard-to-read (just Roger’s quality, agree with you), the ball on serve is accelerating on grass after the bounce, while it is slowing down oc clay. So yes, the advantage of a big serve (Roger’s serve is “big” in a general sense) is rewarded on grass more than anywhere. Yes, volleying is allowed. This is how Federer was exited early by certain Stakhovsky in Wimbledon, playing serve&volley all the way and return and volley all-the way.
        If the only thing you like in tennis, is Fed wining everything, grass season should be 11 months long. But at the end Fed (and others) would be injured for ages and the crowds (excluding FedFans your type)) would be fucking bored and leaving tennis for ages. Tennis on grass is serve. Or serve and volley. Or serve, net approach and lob/passing shot. That’s all. Just on clay you need more skills, because the point will not and in the range of 0-3 shots. On grass players use more time while changing court sides, using towels after every 1-2 shots, than playing. The most boring kind of tennis I have ever seen. For FedFans (your type) it does not matter, because Fed wins so much. You are not a tennis lover. You are even not a Federer lover. You are narcisse like most FedFans. Fed’s wins make your days and maybe your life, because you probably cannot win yourself in life (anything). Poor boy.
        Now be thankful, because I give you another opportunity to use your rich vocabulary, consisting of you know what.
        Calling someone idiot you are replacing your thinking. If you think, someone is idiot, what’s the sense of using arguments (you miss or are lazy too much to think about).
        I’m still sure, Roger will prove this year, he can play well on clay and win RG. You don’t believe? It’s a pity. I thought, all FedFans are religious enough to believe. I don’t rely on belief. I know, Fed can win RG. I’m not sure, he can still win RG next year(s). And I bet, he plays (and probably wins) Paris this year.

      5. Jonathan please come on and make this war more entertaining with some of your wonderful humorous irony! Otherwise an interesting dispute about court quality is getting boring personal. PRF: You are wrong in one thing: Federer fans are not only poor people that “cannot win yourself in life (anything)”. Look at many famous fans, for instance Anna Sophie Mutter. And of course not all people who don’t fancy Federer fan-like may be idiots, although I personally and more or less secretly doubt this statement a little bit… πŸ™‚

      6. > the ball on serve is accelerating on grass after the bounce

        Haha, can you dig up some evidence for this please PRF? How can anyone take you seriously with nonsense like that? Grass must be such a biased surface for Federer it is able to defy the laws of physics.

      7. @muser
        Somehow I don’t see Anne Sophie Mutter on this forum. Famous fans – something new in the whole story. FamousFedFans. Where does this club have it’s

    2. Career’s stats. Federer hit 6 aces per match on clay and 8 on hard, Nadal 2 on clay and 3 on hard. The difference is not significant.
      About farewell for Paris fans: would be not greater to have a farewell lifting the trophy than losing in second round?
      Federer winning Wimbledon is boring. Federer winning Paris would be maybe his mist valuable slam.
      Do you remember the story of Fed asking Thiem about common season’s preparation after 2017 season was finished? Why Thiem? To prepare Thiem for Wimbledon? Or rather to prepare himself for Paris?
      I’m quite sure, Roger plays Paris this year. Not the whole season. Maybe just ONLY Paris. Should he not come deep or win, is no problem for the rest of the season. Or he plays 2-3 Masters and French Open on clay and then Halle+Wimbledon and skips the rest of the season.

      1. Have you played on clay? Because I alternate between hard and said clay, and just the sliding around is harder on the muscles than movement on hard.

        Roger’s endurance is not deficit as you put it, it’s more that his attacking style is slowed down to the point that the opponent can much easier return his shots and pass/ outlast him. I disagree with Sid when he says it only rewards endurance, but clay is the most physical surface.

        Re Roger winning Wimby being boring, uhh, nah… I’d much rather enjoy subtle volleys, and quick paced point construction rather than endless baseline rallies (though I do also enjoy the clay season).

        Finally, about the matches on grass being on average longer, isn’t that be skewed by the fact that a larger proportion of grass matches are 5 setters? I rather have a statistic on set time rather than match time. Not saying results will absolutely change, but I would believe so.

      1. That’s a good post. But surely you haven’t read it or were unable to digest the information properly as you still think that when the ball lands on grass it speeds up, but on clay slows down? Can you explain in simple terms how that is physically possible?

      2. Actually please give us some sample data. Eg Federer hit a 120mph serve at Wimbledon, just before the bounce it was travelling at 75mph, then once it bounced it sped back to up 85mph. I’d love to see this data, would be so cool for us fans to get such insight.

      3. @Jon
        I have read and believe to have understood. Other than in terms of physics, it’s this explained visually in this video https://vimeo.com/206050057.
        I think, I have seen this happening on both surfaces as a rule, not thinking about physics.
        And this applies for every shot, not only serve.
        FedFans are understandably focused on Roger’s game and it has some important specific feature – he takes the ball very early on every surface, which makes his game suiting so well just grass,. Just because of the acceleration after the bounce (the bounce is lower than on clay and the ball accelerating because of less friction on grass than any other surface and you have less time for reaction.
        More aces (not just from Fed, but for every player) in average on grass than other surfaces, especially clay, is also indirect proof of my point. Federer (and others) serves about the same on every surface, but the ace ratio is highest on grass, just because the accelerating ball is making returning more difficult. Serve&volley has no chance on clay, better on hard and the best on grass (recalling once more Stakhovsky vs. Fed in Wimbledon). He played S&V and even R&V all-the time and Fed did not find remedy.
        I cannot give you any example data, because I cannot do measurements myself. But you can look for related data in Google, like everyone can πŸ™‚

      4. @Jon
        And the simplest argument. There is something like court pace or court speed, which can be somehow measure. But even without the measurement, you can see it with your eyes and alle the world I(I mean FedFans) lamenting every year about courts getting slower, but still sure (correctly IMO), grass is the fastest surface, just suiting Fed the best, resulting in bis biggest results on this surface.
        How can the court “speed” (thinking like fan, spectator, not trying to understands the physics) be understood if not just the ball behavior after the bounce? Players are the same. Air is the same . What can make the court fast? First the surface, than additionally the balls. There are no more factors to understand the speed I(pace) of the court.
        I’m wondering a bit, how FedFans can doubt about grass being the fastest surface.

      5. So you still think that the ball accelerates once it hits the surface on grass?!? I can’t take you seriously, your argument doesn’t even hold to the most basic of scrutiny πŸ˜†

        Re grass being the fastest surface – this is incorrect based on hawkeye data, look at CPI numbers from last year, Wimbledon was not the fastest court. And this isn’t just some “I see it with my own eyes” nonsense argument like you put forward. This is from in tournament play across the whole tournament. ie. their cameras and ball tracking technology are calculating the true speed of the court taking into account surface, weather, balls and everything else as it’s taken from real tournament play. How can you dispute their numbers? London, Shanghai, Paris and AO were quicker on the CPI than Wimbledon…

      6. I just can’t, I just can’t

        PRF, you put your personal thought on Roger, I don’t really mind. I promised my self to ignore you (and I strongly advice other to do so). But messing up with physics (and laughing at Jonathan who wants to give you correction, then add ‘It’s never too late for learning, even for isiots’), sorry I need to break my own promise, for the sake of Physics.

        If you pass your 1st grade high school (in Indonesia) or freshman year in US (normally around 15-16), you should learn Conservation of Momentum in physics.

        “the total momentum of the two objects before the collision is equal to the total momentum of the two objects after the collision (m1.v1 + m2.v2 = m1.v1′ + m2.v2′)”.

        There are 3 cases in that principle, the one applied on tennis is ‘partially inelastic collisions’ where the ground is stationary and the ball is bouncing after the collisions. There is what we call Coefficient of Restitution (e) which equals to velocity after collision divide by velocity before collision (e = v’/v), and 0<e<1. If you understand a simple math from that formula, THERE IS NO WAY (quoting your statement here) "the ball on serve is accelerating on grass after the bounce". And that equation is not even bring the friction into factor. The best case is v = v' (e=1) which needs to happen on elastic collision, in isolated system, where there is no friction at all (between ball to ground, and ball with air), no change form of kinetic energy to other form.

        quoted you here 'But you can look for related data in Google, like everyone can'
        Everyone can google anything (even the most nonsense thing) and get a result for that. But the difference between idiot and non idiot is the one who actually know from which one is true which one is not from that search result.

        Now hush.

  50. @Simon
    Yes, I’m playing mainly on clay. Sliding maybe harder on muscles. But don’t any tennis player need well trained muscles? Fed has maybe less muscular arms, but not legs, first of all calves. Clay may be hard on muscles but is softer on joints. While you can train your muscles, you cannot train joints. Or in other words – the only way to train joints is to train corresponding muscles. Some misunderstanding about Fed’s endurance. There was a question mark on the end, which you maybe missed. I don’t see Roger’s endurance to be deficit. My question was rhetoric πŸ™‚
    What’s boring or not is individual an subjective. Fed’s game as such is never boring. Generally IMO matches on grass are boring for most players. The clay game can be boring too if both opponents are middle class grinders, but the same applies to every surface. So let’s differentiate. Attractivity of the game can be surface- or player-related. As I told before, Fed’s game is never boring. But generally the grass game (once more – it’s my individual opinion) is more boring than clay game. The speed of the game for itself does not make a game more or less boring. Nadal or Seppi on clay is not the same. Federer and Seppi on grass is not the same. I would like to see Paris final between Fed and Rafa (or Thiem if Rafa not recovered and exits earlier).
    About match length on grass and on clay – you may be right. Of course the proportion between 3- and 5-setters is different for both surfaces. I don’t know, if the author of the analysis has taken it into account. Right – length of a set would tell more than of a match. But the difference is not significant, only telling that those, who think, clay game to be long and boring grinding, thus rewarding ONLY endurance, are probably wrong.

  51. PRF…I think you are arguing only for arguments sake. I’m sure we all make your day by adding fuel to
    your fire. You remind me very much of someone who used to post on Roger’s past website. he and his
    friend FF bullied other posters. Please don’t be him, we all want to have discussions but we don’t need
    to be preached at.

    1. You hear the bells but don’t know, where is the church πŸ˜‰
      Of course I’m the PRF (PolishRogerFan) from old Roger’s website. Of course there was another user (FancyFree, not FF). We were not friends but maybe sometimes our opinions were close. Is this forbidden?
      Who was bullying him, is the old story of no interest for me.
      May I know, how was your nick there?
      Well, I landed here because it seemed, the old faces from Roger’s website are not here. But probably are. Why not? IO’m too – even if only occasionally, being busy with my own blog).
      No worries, I’m not going to post here regularly πŸ™‚
      And about arguing for arguments sake. Maybe you did not notice, what is all my current “thread”” about. It’s about expectation Fed to play Paris this years and maybe win it. My opposition are Fed’s fals defenders, maybe fearing, he could lose and maybe … oh my Goodness – to Rafa – the worst which could happen to FedFans (not for Fed I guess).
      And maybe you remember the steady calling (but never heard) on old Roger’s website for how to deal with posters we don’t like. Simply skip, don’t feel provoked, because first a hostile answer starts the “war” not the first post on a subject, which can be deliberately provoking to make thinking and discussing more vivid.

  52. @Jonathan
    Just read your post https://www.perfect-tennis.com/court-speed-2017/.
    It was about trends, not about comparison, but the data, you quoted there are also good for comparison. While we must take into account, such comparison could give different results every year.
    But let’s take only your table and CPI as maybe best measure.
    So I must agree with you, Wimbledon was just 2017 not the fastest court among slams and Masters. But it was still about 1,5x faster than the fastest clay event (Monte Carlo).
    And taking these data, how would you comment TCT’s comment to my statement about hard courts being Fed’s territory? TCT meant, grass and clay to be two extremes. Your table shows, one extreme was Madrid and Roland Garros and the other – Australian Open, Shanghai and London.
    And yes, I’m still convinced, grass gives the biggest acceleration after the bounce (if we compare the same shot, with same speed, spin, same ball, same weather a.s.o.). Simply because the friction on grass is lower than on other surfaces (they say grass is more “slippery”, causing the ball to bounce lower and be faster.
    Maybe the reason of our misunderstanding was the word “acceleration” I used. I used it after some article I cannot find now, but The clou was not the eventual acceleration (meaning the ball flying at 75 mph just before landing and then say 85 mph after the bounce. The clou was the comparison between surfaces. So let’s name it like this. The ball slows down after the bounce on every surface (not sure, but assuming it’s right), but it slows down more on clay than on grass or hard. Right?

  53. @Jon
    I found this explanation. I don’t know of course, who is the author
    https://www.quora.com/Can-a-ball-accelerate-after-hitting-the-ground
    And some more scientific thoughts about what’s happening with the bouncing ball
    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/117091/why-does-a-ball-bounce-lower
    Not being Ph.D. or even student in physics, I must rely on more easily understandable effects, like the ball acting as a kind of spring, loaded at the contact with the ground and unloaded just after that.
    It’s somehow similar to player’s movement sequence when hitting serve. Physics aside, every coach will tell you, the speed of the serve comes more from your legs acting as a spring than from the speed of the movement of your hitting arm.
    This is all to add to my impression (also coming from playing tennis myself), the ball can accelerate after the bounce, of course losing energy and not able to jump back to the height from which it was hit.
    I could not find explanation, which would be easy to understand and convincing at the same time πŸ™‚
    But I’m sticking with thinking, the ball can accelerate after the bounce and if so, it accelerates more on grass (less friction, thus lower energy loss) and lower bounce at the same time.

    1. Every coach might tell you the speed of the serve comes from the legs, yes, but they’d be wrong. You just keep coming up with more anecdotal evidence for everything.

  54. @Jon
    There is of course the spin, we neglected so far in the discussion.
    I don’t know, how to explain the spin’s (in fact topspin) role in eventual acceleration of the ball after bouncing. But for my experience and logic topspin (advancing rotation) can be a factor in accelerating the ball after the bounce. Once more – probably on every surface, but the most on the most slippery grass (lowest friction).

  55. @Jon
    Simple logic explanation of the ball accelerating more after the bounce on grass. For whatever physical reason bounces are lower on grass/hard than on clay, but the ball has the same energy when hitting the court after an equal serve/shot. This energy unloads in two main components: bouncing in the height and advancing. The less energy used for the bounce (vertical component), the more energy left for advancing.
    What are IYO weak points of this explanation?

    1. The thing you get wrong is your use of the phrase “the ball accelerating”.
      With a perfectly smooth surface and no air resistence the ball should keep the same velocity (well, not exactly but nvm) that he was struck from the racquet.
      With real conditions, the ball only gets slower as it advances through the air, and loses more velocity after it bounces from the surface. Therefore, it can only decelerate and can never accelerate unless there is another strong force that pushes it in the same direction that it was struck. I don’t know how strong the wind should be to cause such effect. I guess it should be extreme conditions for a tennis match.

      You are correct to say that on clay the vertical component of velocity gets bigger at the expense of the horizontal component, meaning that the ball is slower to get to the baseline thus giving the player on the recieving end more time to react.

      1. Have you read articles I linked in my last posts? The one, explaining, how the acceleration is possible, comes from a professor of physics https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-tennis-topspin-ball/#.
        Of course this acceleration is relative not to the speed of the ball when hit by the racket but to the speed when the ball is landing on court. I think, it’s all about topspin and other factors (like surface, mainly friction, the ball itself) is the cause of difference in the amount of acceleration (still topspin = advancing rotation assumed) for ceteris paribus. Of course not every player will be able to produce such a big topspin to cause the effect, but some can. It’s first of all Federer and Nadal. Now maybe also Thiem.
        I was made unsure by some answers to my comment and looked for explanation/evidence. I think, I found it πŸ™‚

      2. I don’t think you did πŸ˜† think about the amount of spin required on the ball then combine that with the required velocity to propel it forward. It can’t be done from a human held tennis racquet. I would stick with believing only what you see with your eyes on the two dimensional TV πŸ™‚

      3. @Jon
        Maybe you did not read the other article about the ball doubling it’s spin after bounce (it was explained on Roddick’s serve, so maybe Roddick can accelerate the ball after the bounce and Federer cannot).
        About playing club tennis in Poland – ha, ha, ha … maybe you? What can you tell about club tennis in Poland? How can you tell, I’m living in Poland? Club tennis does not exist in Poland, if I’m not a profesor emeritus in US.

    1. 120 RPS=7,200 RPM.
      Rafa at his best produces strokes of around 5,000 RPM which is incredible but not enough to make to ball accelerate even if that physics professor is 100% right.

      1. Agree. And what would be eventually worth more for fans, would be a real measurement, which is probably possible but I have never seen such an evidence. Of course there are lots of discussions on tennis forums also about Federer’s forehand just producing the acceleration effect, but no evidence can be found.
        So let’s stay with the statement, the ball slows down on every surface, but it slows down more in clay then on grass/hard, while hard is not equal hard.
        I don’t know, how the real spin is measured (I mean numbers which are displayed to spectators) and how accurate is this measurement. But what was crucial for my way of thinking, was not the absolute speed of the ball after bounce, but the difference between surfaces.

      2. Spin is first diminishing during the flight of the ball because of air friction, but can even double after the bounce, (partly because side spin is then converted by the impact and friction into forward spin), so it’s theoretically possible the ball hit at 5000 RPM to reach 7200 RPM or more after the bounce. This could explain the possible ball acceleration of the ball after bounce.

  56. I can’t believe this is happening! I cannot believe this is happening!! I come to this page a few times a day to read about…you guessed it…what fellow readers have to say about…guess what…Roger Federer’s 20th slam win. And what do I find?

    I find that the entire page is littered with the Gravatar and comments of a troll who is saying everything from how Roger won against an injured field, and how he is baby who Mirka needs to take care of, and how clay is so awesome, and how Federer is “avoiding” Nadal in his stronghold. Roger’s 20th slam has taken a backseat and we are no watching the PRF show. What exactly is this troll trying to prove?

    Jon, why don’t you just rename your blog to PRF Tennis? At least readers like me would know what they are getting into.

    1. Well, I’m thinking and speaking about possible 21th slam, just in Paris. What’s wrong for you?
      I think, the 20th was somehow not valuable enough for Fed (not his failure), because of his path to the crown, full of handicapped, missing and failing bigger opponents. Of course it was great in emotional aspects. But not in the effort and level of the game.
      21th slam in Paris would be maybe the most valuable of all, so I hope, Fed will give it a try.
      And no need for Jon to do anything with his blog. It is and will remain the best place for FedFans. And because your season starts in Indian Well and my in Buenos Aires, so you can be sure, I will disappear from here in a week. Or maybe earlier for another reasons.
      PRF Tennis would be nice for my blog, but my blog is not only about tennis, so thank you for the idea, but I will stay with my current name, which is in fact “NO NAME”.

  57. @Jon
    I was just asked by a reader of my blog, who followed today’s battle and got a good recommendation. Just copied all my posts and will compile from them an article to post on my blog.
    So you can delete all my posts. Nothing will be lost.
    And sorry for having forgotten, I’m in the church. My blog is open-minded and no religion there. And I have there no boss while of course everyone can post their opinions, without being offended.
    That’s the difference πŸ™ πŸ™‚
    Nice waiting for 21th. Because you don’t know Fed to play Paris, I’m free to wish and expect Thiem to win it. Which should fit well your religion too – everyone but not Rafa. Hahahahahahahahahahaha …

  58. Hey! Fed Lovers! Anybody there?
    Did you know, that Federer not only can let the ball accelerate after bounce, but also hit a kick serve so, the ball changes direction after bounce by 90Β°, so before the bounce it looks like wide out, but the shows to go to the middle between the corner and the T of the baseline? Or play a dropshot so the ball bounces on the net side of the opponent very close to it, and comes without any touch back to Fed’s field with minimum clearance over the net, so the opponent has no chance to touch it? (this the only situation, when the player – the opponent in this case – may touch the ball hanging in the air on the other side of the net – if he touches the ball but not the net, it counts like valid shot – but try to do this)
    You must now understand basics of physics, but simply watch. For acceleration you would need the broadcaster to display a graph, showing ball velocity just before and just after the bounce.
    Well – some others can do the same, but not that PeRFect πŸ™‚

    1. PRF, you have a huge superiority complex but clearly, have no idea what you are on about half the time. I guess like I said to you many times, an empty vessel makes the most noise.

      1. And a deef ears cannot hear just like empty brain cannot comprehend (I’m saying it to you for the first and (maybe) last time) πŸ˜‰
        And yes – FedFans crowds are making a lot of noise – must be empty or what?
        Using metaphors is dangerous. Take care πŸ™‚
        Or maybe you have a huge minority complex? Maybe I’m just a remedy for you?

  59. BREAKING NEWS !
    R.Federer updated his website this morning.
    He will be back for Indian Wells (skipping Dubai).
    A charity match on March 5 in the US just before with Bill Gates.
    (Also seen on the “Federer family ” facebook page… with a nice picture of a goat resting in the mountains).

    1. Didn’t think he would play Dubai. And we know Nadal wants to hang on to #1.
      No IW for me this year. I’ll be sitting at home turning green with envy.

  60. @Jon
    Do you like this discussion? I was about to end it, but you seem to have still tons of wisdom to tell us. Let’s go. I will wait with commenting after you tell, it’s all you had πŸ˜‰

  61. I’m sorry, I must leave this forum for a time I need to unload my superiority complex, while writing an article about bouncing, accelerating and similar things to publish on my blog. See you πŸ™‚

      1. Of course. Did you ever have a superiority complex? These are just symptoms. What can I do, if I’m ill and nobody wants to help? Only you πŸ™‚
        Complex or not, as an experienced blogger you for sure know, what you can do to get rid of a troll. I will not tell you, because you would see it as a a newbie trying to give simple hints to an old fox πŸ™‚

  62. It’s about conservation of energy. A (moving and rotating) hollow ball has both rotation energy, Er = 1/2 x Mass x (Radius squared) x (spin rate squared in rad/s) plus translational energy, Ec = 1/2 x Mass x (linear speed squared)
    If the ball bounces with a lot of top spin on a high friction surfaces some rotation energy can be transferred to translational speed. So, yes, the ball speed can be higher after the bounce, at the expense spin. The total will be smaller after the bounce though due to the inevitable energy loss at contact.
    At the very least, consider that a spinning ball will change direction (depending on the spin axis) after the bounce. A change in speed direction *is* acceleration.

  63. I repost my reply here, the first one will be difficult to track since it is up above

    PRF, you put your personal thought on Roger, I don’t really mind. I promised my self to ignore you (and I strongly advice other to do so). But messing up with physics (and laughing at Jonathan who wants to give you correction, then add β€˜It’s never too late for learning, even for isiots’), sorry I need to break my own promise, for the sake of Physics.

    If you pass your 1st grade high school (in Indonesia) or freshman year in US (normally around 15-16), you should learn Conservation of Momentum in physics.

    β€œthe total momentum of the two objects before the collision is equal to the total momentum of the two objects after the collision (m1.v1 + m2.v2 = m1.v1β€² + m2.v2β€²)”.

    There are 3 cases in that principle, the one applied on tennis is β€˜partially inelastic collisions’ where the ground is stationary and the ball is bouncing after the collisions. There is what we call Coefficient of Restitution (e) which equals to velocity after collision divide by velocity before collision (e = v’/v), and 0<e<1. If you understand a simple math from that formula, THERE IS NO WAY (quoting your statement here) "the ball on serve is accelerating on grass after the bounce". And that equation is not even bring the friction into factor. The best case is v = v' (e=1) which needs to happen on elastic collision, in isolated system, where there is no friction at all (between ball to ground, and ball with air), no change form of kinetic energy to other form.

    quoted you here 'But you can look for related data in Google, like everyone can'
    Everyone can google anything (even the most nonsense thing) and get a result for that. But the difference between idiot and non idiot is the one who actually know from which one is true which one is not from that search result.

    Now hush.

    1. And this is just your reply to my question directed to Rui? Is Rui an idiot too, so you must answer for him?
      Reposting is something i know very well from old Roger’s website. Are you one of reposting-specialists from those times?
      OK, I don’t expect your answers. I do expect an answer from Rui, so be quite please and let others communicate
      “And that equation is not even bring the friction …” – is this measure of quality of your English? I was sure, you are a n English native-speaker, but maybe you learned English in elementary school in Indonesia only.
      And if you intention was to clarify things, why don’t you explain, if there are some differences between surfaces? I think, there are and this is just about friction. After I read your “lecture”, I think, it must be a cakewalk for you to present another one in answer to my question about surfaces. Thank you

    2. For non rotating bodies, that is true; it’s impossible to get energy out of nothing. I read that article too, but the author forgot spin. In that case there will be also angular momentum. Angular momentum can be transferred to linear momentum and vice versa, depending on the friction between both surfaces (felt and ground), the direction of the spin axis, the collision angle, and so on.

      1. Do you mean this article? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-tennis-topspin-ball/#
        The author did not forgot spin. Half or more of the explanation is just about spin.
        Well, I see, the problem is more complex than I thought. And probably not to explain using formulas based on laws of physics, because there is a lot of factors acting but not present in formulas related to an “ideal” case. It always starts with “assuming” something, which means, the physicist must disregard many factors.
        The best, as Jon wrote in one of his post Not these words but this sens), would be the an empiric measurement, but we cannot find anything. The only thing I could find was about the ball doubling spin after bounce, shown for an exemplary Roddick’s serve. Have someone found more empirical evidence?
        But even based of what we can understand from physics and what we can observe in slow motion and even simply watching live and using basic logic, we may assume, the ball accelerates more or slows down less after the bounce on grass having lower coefficient of friction than on clay. Different sorts of cement coatings used on hard courts may behave rather like grass, than clay but with differences due to different coating materials having different coefficients of friction.
        Thanks, Rui, for your answer. It’s what I expected to happen on different surfaces.

  64. I read the link
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-tennis-topspin-ball/#

    I really hope (for the sake of college students in US) you are not the emeritus professor. I believe you are just googled β€œball accelerate after bounce” and got this articles, posting it here, without even understand it.

    Do you even know Tangential Velocity? At least google it? This velocity is applied on something spinning, in one side the direction is forward, the other is backward. When Vt is bigger then Vcm, It will make the friction between air and ball is on the same way with the horizontal component of velocity (which is what that professor trying to explain), but only in one side of the ball, the other is on the opposite.

    And thats even only the horizontal component, not even counting on the vertical, not even taking consideration of kinetik energy change form into heat during collisions, or friction between ball and ground, and many other factors.

    You want to put about this velocity and acceleration in your blog, go ahead. People on internet need some jokes once in a while. β€˜flat earth blog’ is so outdated and not funny anymore

    1. Maybe I can understand more then you think.
      Maybe you can understand, the real thing I was curious about and trying to find out, is the difference between ball behavior after bounce on different court surfaces. With all your knowledge in physics can you answer this simple question?
      And maybe your explanation about friction between ball and air was not necessary at all, because the difference between Wimbledon, Paris and New York is not mainly the air but the court surface.
      My point was originally, that ball flies flatter and faster after the bounce on grass, when compared with clay.
      May I assume, Roger Federer, with his whole education, talents a.s.o. never heard about principles of physics you are presenting here? Still he can cause different effects on the ball, looking strange for average spectator.
      Even if I’m professor emeritus, so for sure not in physics and not in US, so don’t worry about US students.
      Answer if you can. I’m ready to try to understand even if you let me read some big books in physics before.
      And IMO it’s not a good taste to find spelling errors in posts written by strangers.
      BTW “you are just googled” it’s your English – should I call you “isiot”? Or it’s my mistake and your sentence is correct? Being an “isiot” I would rather write “you have just ggogled”, but I know, how poor my English is. I’m still trying to improve it. Also by participating in discussions with EN natives πŸ™‚

  65. And what is wrong with my english? I gave you technical explanation, to show your mistake and you are attacking my english? Haha

    I am not native english speaker, I just use english in daily basis since 2009. And I never claim that my english is perfect. I am proud with the fact that I can understand general english conversation (and explain physics to you in english) only after with 9years using english on basis.

    To be honest, before complaing about my english, have you read your own comment?

    To answer you about surface, seems like you love google a lot, go ahead, I am not interested answering your question. But posting something completey against physics, it is different, somebody need to correct it. As you said β€˜It’s never too late for learning, even for isiotsβ€˜

    1. Well, so we are both “strangers”, but I’m sure, your English is a lot better than mine. I never claim about language mistakes or errors in such kind of communication. I was not attacking you, but you started with “isiots”, so I tried to found similar error in your English. To laugh about my spelling error was not necessary. The same with the level of my knowledge in physics. Yes, I did have learned physics in high school (in Poland, what would be wrong, if it was in Indonesia?) but this was more than 50 years ago. I don’t think, many people, who ended their education in physics on this level, remember more than me. And I guess you are a bit younger and maybe student at the university, so your knowledge is fresher than mine. Not a good cause to call someone names, but well, that’s life, I was called names by many here and on the old Roger’s website, so just like “flat earth blog”, I try to take it as joke. And when I’m asking, it’s because I want to understand, also to not make my blog a “flat earth blog”.
      Well, OK, you don’t want to answer my questions about surfaces, it’s up to you. For me it’s interesting and I hope, Rui knows the answer.
      But it was still nice to have conversation with you. I have learned a bit and was encouraged to look for more knowledge to explain, what I’m interested in.

  66. Well IMO it is not a good taste to show grammatical error for a non native.

    I had no intention of finding your spelling error. When I quote, then I quote, I copy and paste your sentence. If I change it, it is not a quote anymore.

    I am not using it to show your spelling error and purposely use isiot instead of idiot to make a joke. I only use it when I quote you, I didn’t change it because maybe the word exist and that’s what you really meant to use. My english is not that good, as you said that I just learned english in elementary school only.

    1. Well, we are closer to harmony πŸ™‚ I have misunderstood you, you have misunderstood me. Maybe because we both are not perfect in English.
      But you can take some positive from our dispute – I was all the time thinking you are English native-speaker and was a bit surprised, when finding something, I thought, was a grammatical error.
      So your English of course better than mine. Your physics of course better than mine.
      Can you still be so nice and explain the difference in the ball bounce on different surfaces?

    2. And if you allow, I will quote some of your explanations in my planned article. I don’t want to produce “flate earth something”. I think it would be still OK, if I quote you (informing about the source” even without your – what you wrote here, is now public and this is how Internet works.
      But still I would like to have your consent πŸ™‚

    1. It’s a long wait until Indian Wells so we need some areas of discussion. Court surfaces and spin isn’t a bad one, just sift through the PRF waffle then all good!

      1. Is anyone here a regular watcher of Challenger circuit matches? Most of them are a drag but with a bit of luck you run into some interesting ones. And a few brain meltdowns too…

      2. Waffle or not, at least I have found something of interest not only for FedFans. You need a troll, don’t you?
        How long can you discuss about AO?

  67. @Rui
    Challenger circuit matches are not often streamed, mostly these are poor quality free streams (to be found on http://www.batmanstream.net) . Dustin Brown is playing lots of challengers and these are always funny to watch. There are some high quality challengers with quite high ranked ATP tour players. But right now we can watch some ATP tournaments: Montpellier, Sofia, Quito and next week come South-American swing tournaments.
    If you asked in the intention to find some watchable tennis before IW πŸ™‚
    On the “Batman” page” you can always see matches to be streamed “today”, including challenger circuit.
    Right now Gasquet plays Medvedev in Montpelier.

    1. Most challenger matches are indeed good quality streams through the ATP channel:
      http://livestream.com/ATP, which I usually connect to. Some US tournaments even have 2 or 3 cameras around the court, which give it a semi-professional look.
      Batmanstream is the source I use the most for ATP matches but in the case of challenger it’s better to go to the original page because it’s free.
      And yeah, Dustin Brown is a regular customer and good fun to watch, especially when the grass season starts.

      1. Thanks for the link – I didn’t know, such ATP service exists. TennisTV is of course better (or Eurosportplayer for some slams), but not free. Batman is free, but not this quality and no replies. I usually pay for yearly subscription on TennisTV and use Batman only for matches not being streamed on TennisTV (lastly Thiem’s matches in DavisCup) were only to watch there, ITF Live TV was streaming only world group matches.
        Regarding DB – he suffered today some bad looking back injury, while playing (and going to win) against Mahut. Hope it’s not very serious and he can be back soon on court. While watching him, I have always the impression, he does not care much about fitness training, is making everything “unorthodox” and this makes him losing “almost won” matches or getting injuries. But he is a real rastaman and takes it all smiling πŸ™‚

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